RKCB and the Queen of Trumps

RKCB and the Queen of Trumps The three non-Queen responses.

#1 Dinarius

Group: Full Members
Posts: 274
Joined: 2015-February-11
Gender:Male
Location:Ireland

Posted 2015-October-28, 03:28

Whether you are playing 1430 or 0314, there are three bids that do not show the Queen of trumps, in response to the 4NT asking bid.

Yet, the stock explanation of RKCB seems to be that, the 5NT bid is a Grand Slam try and "...should only be bid if the partnership holds all five keycards (fair enough) and the Queen of trumps."

But, how can you know when only one of the responses to 4NT guarantees she's there?

For example, with three key cards, you reply 5 diamonds (playing 1430), but you may also hold the trump Queen.

Now if partner knows that all five key cards are presents, can he bid 5NT and establish the presence of the trump Queen?

Thanks.

D.

#2 helene_t

The Abbess

Group: Advanced Members
Posts: 17,198
Joined: 2004-April-22
Gender:Female
Location:Copenhagen, Denmark
Interests:History, languages

Posted 2015-October-28, 03:35

The player doing the asking may have the queen

Note that when we are known to have a 10-card fit we have the queen per definition since even if we don't it will probably drop.

Otherwise, the cheapest bid after the RKC response asks for the queen. For example (hearts are trumps)
Response is 5♣: 5♦ now asks for the queen. Now 5♥ denies the queen, while any other response shows some king(s) and also confirms the queen.
Response is 5♦: 5♠ now asks for the queen. Now 6♥ denies the queen, while any other response shows some king(s) and also confirms the queen.

The world would be such a happy place, if only everyone played Acol :) --- TramTicket

#3 Dinarius

Group: Full Members
Posts: 274
Joined: 2015-February-11
Gender:Male
Location:Ireland

Posted 2015-October-28, 03:40

helene_t, on 2015-October-28, 03:35, said:

The player doing the asking may have the queen

Obviously, the player asking may have the queen. I took that as understood.

Thanks for the reply. I haven't seen that queen asking sequence anywhere.

D.

#4 fromageGB

Group: Advanced Members
Posts: 2,679
Joined: 2008-April-06

Posted 2015-October-28, 06:39

Expanding a little, 5♠ over 5♦ would be a King ask where asker does not have the Q (hence the 6♥ denial, as asker is looking for a grand) while if asker had the Q himself he would bid 5NT to King ask.

(An assumption, I don't play these methods.)

#5 WGF_Flame

Group: Full Members
Posts: 241
Joined: 2003-December-19

Posted 2015-October-28, 07:03

If you didnt have queen ask explained in your RCKB reference, then you should not trust it, as asking for Q is basic part of RCKB. (it was explained on the first result on my google search for RKCB)

#6 Zelandakh

Group: Advanced Members
Posts: 10,698
Joined: 2006-May-18
Gender:Not Telling

Posted 2015-October-28, 07:25

There are a few different ways of organising the RKCB responses and follow-ups. Here is a simple one that is also not too far from optimal, at least from an I/A perspective:-

5 of trump suit is a sign-off opposite 0-2 key cards; a queen ask opposite 3-4 key cards; a king ask opposite 5 key cards
1st non-trump step is a queen ask opposite a 14 or 03 response; a king ask opposite a 25 response
2nd non-trump step is a king ask opposite a 14 or 03 response; a specific suit ask (SSA) opposite a 25 response (with NT replacing the most expensive suit)
3rd and 4th non-trump steps are SSAs (with NT replacing the most expensive suit)
5th non-trump step is a SSA opposite a 14 or 03 response; asks for something extra opposite a 25 response

Some additional rules:
If you have a known 10 card fit, show the trump queen even if you do not have her.
When showing the trump queen, be sure to show a side king at the same time.
If partner explicitly asks for kings and you have all of the remaining unaccounted for, you can afford to bid above 6 of the trump suit.
If your known trump fit is only 8 cards and partner asks for the trump queen and then continues after you deny it, they have extra length and are hoping you also have extra (to make a 10 card fit).
SSAs are a rare but powerful tool. There are many ways or organizing responses - one is: trumps = no 3rd round control; 1st step = doubleton (Jx or worse); 2nd step = Q; 3rd step = K (3 or longer suit); 4th step = Kx doubleton; 5th step = singleton; 6th step = KQ.
You can find (much) more detail by looking up Kantar's 2004 write-up, which is available online for free at Bridge with Dan.

(-: Zel :-)

#7 KurtGodel

Group: Full Members
Posts: 223
Joined: 2012-June-26

Posted 2015-October-29, 09:55

fromageGB, on 2015-October-28, 06:39, said:

No, you don't make grand slam tries missing the queen of trumps (unless you have ten cards, and then you just pretend you have the Queen). I think common agreements are that 5♠ is a cue, 5NT is the King ask.
Since I normally play that bidding 6x (not the trump suit) asks partner to bid grand with a 3rd round control I play that 5♠ is the king ask: then for hearts 5NT shows the spade king, 6m that minor king and 6♥ shows no kings. Likewise for playing in diamonds now you can bid 5NT with a major suit king and 6♦ with no kings. So I use 5NT as: please bid grand with a 3rd round control in spades.

These agreements are not that useful as they don't come up very much! Playing the next step up (which is not the trump suit) as the queen ask is pretty standard though.

#8 Lovera

Group: Advanced Members
Posts: 1,743
Joined: 2014-January-12
Gender:Male
Location:Bari (ITALIA)
Interests:I'm also on YOUTUBE with a channel of music songs .

Posted 2016-December-15, 11:33

Zelandakh, on 2015-October-28, 07:25, said:

Although Kantar wrote "The Final Word" on 2008. What are the differences with 2004 edition or where i can see about the last work ?

Page 1 of 1

You cannot start a new topic
You cannot reply to this topic

BBO Discussion Forums: RKCB and the Queen of Trumps - BBO Discussion Forums