[oryctolagi]

barmar, on 2016-January-23, 16:04, said:

I thought he was just venting. I don't think any feedback is really necessary.

You may have a point there. OK, yes, you do have a point. But perhaps it's better to vent one's spleen here on the forum, rather than at the table? I believe I have reasonable self-control at the table. At any rate, I haven't sunk to the level of name-calling that, regrettably, I've witnessed from others.

I did leave the table in question without saying the usual 'goodbye's and 'thank you's. That in itself probably conveyed something of my thoughts.

Anyway, thanks for all the tips about how to play the hand, but I don't really need that. I know now that if 1NTx had been passed out, I'd probably have made, or at worst 1 down, and avoided a lot of trouble. My post was really about attitudes rather than about bridge.

[steve2005]

Vampyr, on 2016-January-23, 19:49, said:

Without discussion? For reals?

Partner passed a weak 1N so has virtually 0% interest in game. So, if 1N X comes back to partner with a good hand should pass and unless both partners are an absolute maximum this will be a top board.
The corollary is that XX is a an attempt escape with no clear place to play.

For real.

[Vampyr]

steve2005, on 2016-January-24, 10:26, said:

Partner passed a weak 1N so has virtually 0% interest in game. So, if 1N X comes back to partner with a good hand should pass and unless both partners are an absolute maximum this will be a top board.
The corollary is that XX is a an attempt escape with no clear place to play.

Or vice versa, ie XX is a escape to a 5-card suit. Or maybe XX shows majors or mnors, as per Woolsey. Or even XX shows a max and is a suggestion to play if partner has 9-10 HCP.

But none of these apply LOL because partner and I are both playing the method you suggest without having discussed it. Of course opener is not really invited to do anything.

[billw55]

oryctolagi, on 2016-January-23, 03:55, said:

Let's get this straight. I fully accept that 2♦ was wrong - why do you have to rub it in? (remarks like "I'd leave the table" ... "insane" etc. etc. are hardly likely to encourage me to stick with BBO. Do people really want me out of here on the strength of one or two bad bids? )

I had indeed - in a 'senior' moment - forgotten the mantra "do not bid again after 1NT without hearing from partner".

Perhaps my bigger mistake was to make this public.

In fairness, when you post a subject on a discussion forum, it is predictable that it will be discussed.

Were some posters were too harsh? Perhaps, but you did choose the general forum. This makes a difference. If you are interested in more gentle, softball replies, you can get them in the beginner forum.

oryctolagi, on 2016-January-23, 03:55, said:

My partner's 6♦ was a 'punishment' bid. No other way to describe it. Clearly pre-meditated and designed to discompose, more, to humiliate me (since I would be the one playing it out, and it gave me no opportunity to retreat to clubs - I presume that if I'd gone 7♣ he'd have gone 7♦). I suppose the intention was to force me off the table - at which he succeeded - after I'd played out this ridiculous contract.

I tend to agree, that is the most plausible interpretation of 6♦. It is also possible that the player is just really bad, although bad players would generally be happy to get out in 3NT.

[steve2005]

Vampyr, on 2016-January-24, 12:12, said:

Or vice versa, ie XX is a escape to a 5-card suit. If u have a 5-card suit why would you not bid it? is usually a minor,


Or maybe XX shows majors or mnors, as per Woolsey. I believe that convention is for direct seat. Why leave out hands 4-4 in minors or 4-4 in majors.

Or even XX shows a max and is a suggestion to play if partner has 9-10 HCP. With 9-10 hcp is clear pass for a top. The odds of making game are very slim to risk a top. Maybe opps will let you play 1MXX or run to something you can penalize buy 180 or better will be a good score why risk it?

But none of these apply LOL because partner and I are both playing the method you suggest without having discussed it. Of course opener is not really invited to do anything. have played this method with and without discussion and never had a mess-up for over 30 years.

[Phil]

Amuses me how spite bidding is always overbidding instead of underbidding. If you really want to tee someone off, pass their 1N opening cold for slam and watch them get unhinged as they chalk up +240. Way more effective in the spite category.

As far as the actual bidding goes 2D is, well odd. 2H in a practiced partnership makes some sense - how does partner escape from 1N with the red suits - except it's really not sound for opener to be the one running, so this isn't the correct answer.

2D should be six pieces. I'd happily sit and watch your partner enjoy the 4-2 fit.

[Vampyr]

steve2005, embedding your comments in someone else's post makes it difficult to respond... But I suppose you knew that LOL.

I guess your method of NT escapes is common in your area. Here in weak NT land there is no method that enjoys particular popularity, and this is probably even more true on BBO. Why you insist that everyone will automatically play the way you do is beyond me. Oh, wait, are you in the ACBL?

[Zelandakh]

Phil, on 2016-January-26, 09:46, said:

Amuses me how spite bidding is always overbidding instead of underbidding. If you really want to tee someone off, pass their 1N opening cold for slam and watch them get unhinged as they chalk up +240. Way more effective in the spite category.

Except that then the other 2 players at the table might think you are simply a bad player rather than obviously "punishing" partner. As spite goes, passing a cue bid or transfer probably works quite well too.

[Zelandakh]

Vampyr, on 2016-January-26, 10:01, said:

steve2005, embedding your comments in someone else's post makes it difficult to respond... But I suppose you knew that LOL.

I guess your method of NT escapes is common in your area. Here in weak NT land there is no method that enjoys particular popularity, and this is probably even more true on BBO. Why you insist that everyone will automatically play the way you do is beyond me. Oh, wait, are you in the ACBL?

I would think the most popular methods are natural, then exit transfers, wrinkle and helvic. It is geunuinely unclear what the "best" escape mechanism is and it is a common BBF subject that has provoked the same answers and positions for years already.

[barmar]

Phil, on 2016-January-26, 09:46, said:

Amuses me how spite bidding is always overbidding instead of underbidding. If you really want to tee someone off, pass their 1N opening cold for slam

The opportunities to do that don't come up as often. Overbidding is possible on almost all hands. If you bid 7NT, you'll be overbidding more than 99% of the time.

[Phil]

Zelandakh, on 2016-January-26, 10:03, said:

Except that then the other 2 players at the table might think you are simply a bad player

...goes without saying

[kenberg]

Several points that seem obvious to me:

A. The two of you will not be developing a partnership.

B. Your partner is not an expert.

C. You could report the 6D bid to the BBO folks. I doubt they will shoot him at sunrise but they might either monitor his behavior on other hands or send him a note. I imagine he will express some frustration with you as well. But he should not have bid 6D. It screws up the scores for others. Btw, if the option is availabe (not a tourney), as an opponent I would offer to cancel the deal. And then move on to other hands with other opponents. Bridge is for pleasure and setting a ridiculous contract a zillion tricks is not my idea of fun.

D. You mention "senior moments". Being 77, I know about senior moments, but 2D just seem like a mistake. I don't see any need to remember a rule that you should not bid here, with some hands you might, rather the issue is why on Earth you would bid 2D with the hand that you hold. Rules have nothing to do with it. Being a senior is irrelevant.

E. You appear to be unhappy with your partner, unhappy with BBO, unhappy with responses you are getting, and just generally unhappy. I can't fix that for you.

[y66]

You did not deserve this.

p.s. Mantras aside, what were you thinking when you bid 2D and do you understand why it's so important to figure out why this is insane with that hand unless you're playing with kenrexford? Not to flog yourself, but to improve your thought process?

[jogs]

steve2005, on 2016-January-22, 22:42, said:

Sorry esteemed one 2♦ is insane. For all you know it's our hand, 1NX makes and we can punish the opponents in all suits.
OK maybe I'm dreaming but my point is let partner decide that's what they are there for.

2♦ is insane. 2♥ is insane. 3♣ is criminally insane.

[mgoetze]

kenberg, on 2016-January-26, 10:24, said:

Bridge is for pleasure and setting a ridiculous contract a zillion tricks is not my idea of fun.

I beg to differ. After the auction

---

extracting 1700 from my opponents for playing this ridiculous convention was the most fun I had at the bridge table all November, even though it was soon tainted by the realization that we could have scored the full 2000.

[kenberg]

mgoetze, on 2016-January-26, 20:02, said:

I beg to differ. After the auction

---

extracting 1700 from my opponents for playing this ridiculous convention was the most fun I had at the bridge table all November, even though it was soon tainted by the realization that we could have scored the full 2000.

I grant that there could be exceptions to my assertion!

[barmar]

If the opponents bid reasonably normally, but you find a good defense to extract the maximum penalty, that's an intellectual pleasure.

But if the opponents make a joke bid, there's no pleasure from taking the tricks they're throwing at you.

[mgoetze]

barmar, on 2016-January-28, 09:27, said:

If the opponents bid reasonably normally, but you find a good defense to extract the maximum penalty, that's an intellectual pleasure.

But if the opponents make a joke bid, there's no pleasure from taking the tricks they're throwing at you.

OK but is a 1♠ overcall showing 0-11 points, 2-4 spades, usually balanced "reasonably normal" or is it a "joke bid"?

(The opps were adamant that this convention works well at their local club.)

[kenberg]

mgoetze, on 2016-January-29, 08:48, said:

OK but is a 1♠ overcall showing 0-11 points, 2-4 spades, usually balanced "reasonably normal" or is it a "joke bid"?

(The opps were adamant that this convention works well at their local club.)

It lies somewhere in between. They intend it as serious, as opposed to the 6D bid which was intended as an obscene gesture before leaving the table.
I once played a round against a pair who pre-alerted that they do not play new suits by responder as forcing. So (1H)-pass-(2C)-pass-(pass) was a typical auction for them They were quite sure they were on to something. Or maybe just on something.
For some reason I have not encountered this approach since then.

[mgoetze]

kenberg, on 2016-January-29, 12:43, said:

I once played a round against a pair who pre-alerted that they do not play new suits by responder as forcing. So (1H)-pass-(2C)-pass-(pass) was a typical auction for them They were quite sure they were on to something. Or maybe just on something.
For some reason I have not encountered this approach since then.

The reason is surely that you live in ACBL country, where all the other bits needed to actually make such a system good (transfer openings, artificial INV+ relays, etc.) are proscribed.

(Actually I haven't come across such a system in Germany either, even though it would be allowed here. But I'm sure it can be workable.)