[rmnka447]

 Vampyr, on 2016-March-08, 19:09, said:

We are going to the Nationals. I am hoping that we won't have to play under the Midchart, as we won't be playing in any limited events. But maybe the Superchart is available less often than I am assuming.

In any case, do you know who it is I should contact?

I'd start with contacting the ACBL tournament directors.

You can get their e-mail address by going to the ACBL website (acbl.org). Then use the About ACBL button. Then to Contact Us button. Then an overall directory will appear. In the Service Directory Section, find Rulings(Get One,Ask About One). That should be the address to get to the TDs.

[sfi]

 Vampyr, on 2016-March-08, 19:09, said:

We are going to the Nationals. I am hoping that we won't have to play under the Midchart, as we won't be playing in any limited events. But maybe the Superchart is available less often than I am assuming.

My experience from the 2015 Spring Nationals is:

- Vanderbilt was superchart, so we could play our strong club relay system.
- Other major national events were midchart, so no relay system (for a variety of reasons relating to our specific system), but most constructive treatments were allowed.
- The one-day swiss teams we played as a warm-up was GCC, which meant we had to drop a couple of conventions.

If you play a convention requiring an approved defence (we didn't), you will need to have it available even in events such as the Vanderbilt and Spingold. Our 2nd round opponents had forgotten theirs so weren't playing multis against us. We told them we didn't care, but they still dropped it.

As I understand it, any non-GCC conventions that don't require defences simply require a pre-alert before the round. We had no problems in four days of both pairs and teams, and nobody was particularly surprised by the pre-alert.

We even played Polish Club in everything but the Vanderbilt and had no issues at the table, although we did include that in our pre-alerts.

The two unusual things I did find were that almost nobody looked at the convention cards even though we put them on the table in front of them, and the question 'leads and carding' was almost ubiquitous. In response to the latter, opponents expected a summary of all carding agreements. Odd compared to what I am used to, but hardly impossible to adjust to.


In short, unless you are pushing the boundaries the hype about the differences appeared to be much greater than the reality. You may not get to play your pet conventions (or what I call 'sensible modern methods') in the side events, but there are enough national events that this may not affect you if you play well enough to make the finals of them - typically top 50% of the field.

[SteveMoe]

 Vampyr, on 2016-March-08, 19:09, said:

We are going to the Nationals. I am hoping that we won't have to play under the Midchart, as we won't be playing in any limited events. But maybe the Superchart is available less often than I am assuming.

In any case, do you know who it is I should contact?

Hi Vampyr - the ACBL Defense Database is at: http://www.acbl.org/...fense-database/
The page discusses the need for prior approval of a suggested defense and how to get that approval - i understand it is not a fast process. Note that methods may be suitable only for extended play, any team play, and short matches.

For example there are two published defenses for Multi-2♦. You can agree with partner ahead of time which one of the two to use. Then you are allowed to refer to the written defense at any time during the bidding or play.

The Competitions & Conventions Committee is at: http://www.acbl.org/...ions-committee/
You'll find information how to contact them.

The ACBL Convention Chart: http://web2.acbl.org...ntion-Chart.pdf

ACBL Alert Chart: http://web2.acbl.org.../AlertChart.pdf

[mycroft]

So, if people actually *read* the Mid-Chart (which I know nobody does - this isn't meant as an insult to anybody, it's just the way the world works), they'll find:

Quote

When using a method permitted by the Mid-Chart but not by the General Convention Chart, a pair is required to:

• Pre-Alert the method(s)
• Have a written description of the method(s) available for the opponents.
• Except for those methods authorized by sections #1 – 5 below, have a copy of the approved suggested defense available for each opponent.

Approved defenses are available in the ACBL defense database at [...]
A defense to a method which requires the above pre-Alert (whether the approved one or one provided by the opposing pair) may be referred to during the auction by both pairs.

The one that is almost never honoured (and almost never enforced, unfortunately) is the "written description" part - even for Mid-Chart methods that do not require a defence (like KI or Suction/NT). Because of the defence provision requirement, I would strongly suggest bringing 4-6 copies; *someone* will walk off with one of them, guaranteed (totally by accident), or they'll be "forgotten" like sfi's opponents that one day, or...

Note (for Vampyr in particular) the "or one provided by the opposing pair". You do not need to *use* the provided defences, they just have to be there. I would assume you'd prefer your Multi 2♦ defence to either of the ones in the ACBL database; should you choose to, you may write it down (and make it more complicated than you would normally remember because it's written down) and refer to it at the table.

Other Note: if "3NT opening SAT in a major" is "preempt in a major" - i.e. not a solid suit - then I don't even believe it is Mid-Chart legal. Which I find odd, but there it is. If it is a solid suit, then it's GCC legal.

[mycroft]

Oh, and despite the furore at the turn of the century, Polish Club *itself* is straight GCC. You'll have to give up your Multi and your Polish 2s (multi also in 2 or 3-board Mid-Chart Pair games), and Wilkosz is not even Superchart-legal, but I regularly play against it (both WJ and Nasz variants) when I'm in Edmonton or in tournaments here.

[Vampyr]

Thanks for all the helpful info. If I need an approved defens, how do I get it approved?

[Zelandakh]

 Vampyr, on 2016-March-09, 10:53, said:

Thanks for all the helpful info. If I need an approved defens, how do I get it approved?

You get on the committee and bribe the other members by offering to approve their pet methods in return for approving yours. If you are lucky and extremely dedicated it will only take 20 years or so.

[Vampyr]

 Zelandakh, on 2016-March-09, 11:27, said:

You get on the committee and bribe the other members by offering to approve their pet methods in return for approving yours. If you are lucky and extremely dedicated it will only take 20 years or so.

Cool. The chairman is an old friend, so maybe I could manage to shave it down to 10 or 15.

[barmar]

 Vampyr, on 2016-March-08, 14:47, said:

EDIT Have found a defensive database, though. I understand that I can print it out and refer to it if my opponents use any of the methods listed? What if there are several defenses offered -- how will I know which one partner is using?

I don't know where it's written down officially, but my understanding is that you and partner can decide which one to use at the time it comes up in the auction. So RHO makes a bid, LHO alerts it and explains that it's one of these conventions. You and partner can then look at the list of defenses and agree which one to use. However, I'm not sure how much discussion you can have beside just "Let's use method #1", "No, I prefer method #2", "OK".

In practice, though, I think most players do this at the beginning of the round when the opponents pre-alert that they're playing the method. This way, you can have a real discussion without worrying about passing UI.

And if you print out the defenses for yourself ahead of time, I expect you would discuss it with partner then.

[sfi]

I forgot about the written description, but my partner did have it at the table. Not many people looked at it.

[pigpenz]

is there any place where say the convention cards of all the pairs say in the Platinum pairs is posted or for that matter any National Event(ACBL0)

[Phil]

 pigpenz, on 2016-March-25, 18:28, said:

is there any place where say the convention cards of all the pairs say in the Platinum pairs is posted or for that matter any National Event(ACBL0)

Not specifically but you can see many of the ccs at usbf.org.

[Mbodell]

 barmar, on 2016-March-09, 12:36, said:

I don't know where it's written down officially, but my understanding is that you and partner can decide which one to use at the time it comes up in the auction. So RHO makes a bid, LHO alerts it and explains that it's one of these conventions. You and partner can then look at the list of defenses and agree which one to use. However, I'm not sure how much discussion you can have beside just "Let's use method #1", "No, I prefer method #2", "OK".

In practice, though, I think most players do this at the beginning of the round when the opponents pre-alert that they're playing the method. This way, you can have a real discussion without worrying about passing UI.

And if you print out the defenses for yourself ahead of time, I expect you would discuss it with partner then.

You aren't really allowed to choose a defense after the situation comes up. But the opponents must have pre-alerted you, which then gives you the chance to choose a defense. Note, you are also allowed to have your own written defense, not just the pre-approved defense, if you fancy it.

[Zelandakh]

 Mbodell, on 2016-March-26, 16:06, said:

You aren't really allowed to choose a defense after the situation comes up.

Since Meckwell agreed verbally after an opp bid a multi a little while back, I would imagine it is within the possibilities for normal club players. If it were not allowed, I am confident the conversation would not have gone as reported by the vugraph operator.

[blackshoe]

"Meckwell did it, so it must be legal"?

Interesting. Would this apply to things like ordering the Watergate break-in? "The President did it, so it must be legal"?