[eagles123]

I'd just bid 3n but who knows - interesting hand

[Caitlynne]

Clearly, 3NT could be the right spot on this hand. But equally clearly, playing in clubs at some level could be right.

Since I can't see the other hands and I do not have a truly magical crystal ball, you have to make a reasoned choice.

Overall, bidding 3NT is taking a position. Partner will rarely move even with a hand with scattered values. And then you could easily miss a slam. Or you could get a spade lead (or a diamond lead) and be beaten in 3NT when partner does not have spade help and diamond coverage (or diamond coverage including the Ace and and a club card). Another problem with 3NT - though not a likely peril on this hand - is if LHO raises hearts. Now what will you do? If you double - which is clearly penalty oriented - partner may have long bad spades and bid 4S on you, turning your plus score into a minus.

I think the best chance of landing on your feet and in the correct strain is to bid your long suit. If partner has a club card and a few scattered values, partner likely will bid 3H to ask for a heart stopper, and now you have an easy conversion to 3NT. If partner bids 3S or 3D - neither of which is particularly unlikely - you can just continue with 3NT anyway - taking the chance that partner has some values in the fourth suit. So overcalling in clubs does not preclude getting to game in No Trump - but it does increase the chances that it is the right contract when you do. Finally, if partner raises clubs (or pulls 3NT after a 3H bid), you can cue bid to look for slam.

If partner passes you in 3C, you are unlikely to be missing a game (although that is certainly possible). But even then, not vulnerable, it is not a disaster and not likely to be a substantial loss either.

Finally, 3C is advantaged if LHO competes in hearts (usually to 3H given your heart holding). After 3H is passed back to you (or if partner speaks up with 3S), you have an easy 3NT rebid.

[Phil]

I'd just suck it up and bid 5C. It seems like I need a pretty specific parlay for 3N to be right when 5C isn't.

[miamijd]

Tough call. I could see X, 2NT, 3C, #NT, or 5C. I think I would start with X, but none of these bids seem horrible.

X generally should work out OK unless partner insists on spades. If partner bids the expected 2S, you can bid 3C, showing this sort of hand, and see if partner has a little something to continue on, in which case you'll likely reach 3NT. If partner bids 3S (invite with 5S), you can try 3NT.

Over 2NT Leb, you bid 3C. If partner bids 3S (invite with 4S), you have an easy 3NT call. If partner bids 3D, I would try 4C. Yes, 3NT could work, but since partner has denied 4S, you are apt to get killed in spades unless partner has the Ac. I'd bid 4C and let partner go to 5 with a couple of cards.

Altogether, pretty comfortable. The only risk is that if partner insists on playing 4S, you may well be in the wrong spot. You'll have to guess whether to leave that or bid 5C.

2NT seems wrong to me, as it contains a lot of risk without much reward. First, partner may drop you in 3S on hands where 5C or 3NT makes easily. Second, partner could drop you in 4S on hands where it's wrong. Finally, partner could have a hand that's good enough to make 3NT or 5C, but not good enough to bid over 2NT. Lot of bad things that could happen.

The trouble is, I don't see what good can come of starting with 2NT rather than X.

3C is an underbid with risk and reward. The risk is that you'll miss a game if partner isn't strong enough to bid over 3C but has enough stuff to make game. The reward is that you'll almost certainly make 3C, so if game doesn't make, you'll get a good score.

At MPs, I would be tempted to bid 3C. At IMPs, I don't want to miss an easy game, so I think 3C is way too risky.

5C is reasonable, but what if 3NT is the only making game? Seems a bit unilateral to me.

3NT also seems unilateral. What if we belong in clubs? Surely there is room for some investigation.

[ahydra]

So many replies! Thanks to all who contributed. Looks like 3C/3NT were pretty much joint winners in the poll.

This was partner's hand. He opted for 2NT and things got a bit interesting...

---

(1) East: erm, did partner forget the system? (has done once before) West: I want to play 3NT, not spades.
(2) East: well ostensibly 3NT is a superaccept so I want to try for a slam in spades. Let's see if partner has a diamond control. West: He has spades and clubs.

Made 13 tricks and picked up 2 IMPs when the other table was in 5C+2.

Partner's logic behind 2NT was that he needs something from me to make 3NT. However I don't think that he can necessarily assume I have it just because I transferred to spades (I could have say six spades to the queen and out). Hence I think I like a 3NT bid on this.

ahydra

[kenberg]

After the 2NT bid, was a 4H transfer to spades not an option?

KR suggested 2NT. I like it but I was unsure of what I ould do over a 3H transfer to spades. But I mentioned that woith a 4H transfer to spades I would accept and play in my 6-1 fit.

This hand certainly is an advertisement for Texas Transfers. Yes I realize that 4S can be beaten if S leads the daimond Jact to N's K, gets his club ruff and then leads a small diamond to N's T for another ruff but You are presumably not playing against the psychically gifted.

I claim partial credit for realizing N had to (almost had to) have some spades but I never did figure out what I was going to do if after 2NT partner bid 3H. And, for that matter, I still don't know. With my stiff A I am not super-accepting anything.

In practical terms you obviously will not like 3NT played W pn a plausible on a diamond lead. 4S making a lot, absent a diamond underlead lead of the ace that can only happen in a fantasy, seems right.

that being said, thank you for the very intersting hand and thank you for showing how it worked out inpractice.

[mike777]

I can see after a 3c overcall, east will try for slam

a very interesting thread with lots of good comments.

[MrAce]

kenberg, on 2016-July-08, 17:12, said:

After the 2NT bid, was a 4H transfer to spades not an option?

I have this option but that does not solve anything. Pd can start 3♥ instead of 4♥ for many reasons such as starting to describe a big 2 suiter or starting a slamish auction and planning to cue hearts next etc.

This is exactly why I would never start 2 NT. But if i did, I would just simply complete the transfer and bid 3♠.

[gfroeli]

To me 3 or 4 H seems to be a good bid since p is showing 6 and you have 3 honors to AK.

[msjennifer]

ggwhiz, on 2016-July-08, 09:14, said:

I would bet a lot that the full hand will give 1 of a few dozen reasons.

Sorry.I don't like to bet as I never do it.I think I have answered all reasons in my reply.It is not possible to reply in detail as you have not enumerated those dozen reasons.Just wait and watch.

[msjennifer]

Caitlynne, on 2016-July-08, 10:18, said:

Clearly, 3NT could be the right spot on this hand. But equally clearly, playing in clubs at some level could be right.

Since I can't see the other hands and I do not have a truly magical crystal ball, you have to make a reasoned choice.

Overall, bidding 3NT is taking a position. Partner will rarely move even with a hand with scattered values. And then you could easily miss a slam. Or you could get a spade lead (or a diamond lead) and be beaten in 3NT when partner does not have spade help and diamond coverage (or diamond coverage including the Ace and and a club card). Another problem with 3NT - though not a likely peril on this hand - is if LHO raises hearts. Now what will you do? If you double - which is clearly penalty oriented - partner may have long bad spades and bid 4S on you, turning your plus score into a minus.

I think the best chance of landing on your feet and in the correct strain is to bid your long suit. If partner has a club card and a few scattered values, partner likely will bid 3H to ask for a heart stopper, and now you have an easy conversion to 3NT. If partner bids 3S or 3D - neither of which is particularly unlikely - you can just continue with 3NT anyway - taking the chance that partner has some values in the fourth suit. So overcalling in clubs does not preclude getting to game in No Trump - but it does increase the chances that it is the right contract when you do. Finally, if partner raises clubs (or pulls 3NT after a 3H bid), you can cue bid to look for slam.

If partner passes you in 3C, you are unlikely to be missing a game (although that is certainly possible). But even then, not vulnerable, it is not a disaster and not likely to be a substantial loss either.

Finally, 3C is advantaged if LHO competes in hearts (usually to 3H given your heart holding). After 3H is passed back to you (or if partner speaks up with 3S), you have an easy 3NT rebid.

[msjennifer]

[quote name='Caitlynne' timestamp='1467994687' post='890677']
Clearly, 3NT could be the right spot on this hand. But equally clearly, playing in clubs at some level could be right.

Since I can't see the other hands and I do not have a truly magical crystal ball, you have to make a reasoned choice.

Overall, bidding 3NT is taking a position. Partner will rarely move even with a hand with scattered values. And then you could easily miss a slam. Or you could get a spade lead (or a diamond lead) and be beaten in 3NT when partner does not have spade help and diamond coverage (or diamond coverage including the Ace and and a club card). Another problem with 3NT - though not a likely peril on this hand - is if LHO raises hearts. Now what will you do? If you double - which is clearly penalty oriented - partner may have long bad spades and bid 4S on you, turning your plus score into a minus.

I think the best chance of landing on your feet and in the correct strain is to bid your long suit. If partner has a club card and a few scattered values, partner likely will bid 3H to ask for a heart stopper, and now you have an easy conversion to 3NT. If partner bids 3S or 3D - neither of which is particularly unlikely - you can just continue with 3NT anyway - taking the chance that partner has some values in the fourth suit. So overcalling in clubs does not preclude getting to game in No Trump - but it does increase the chances that it is the right contract when you do. Finally, if partner raises clubs (or pulls 3NT after a 3H bid), you can cue bid to look for slam.

If partner passes you in 3C, you are unlikely to be missing a game (although that is certainly possible). But even then, not vulnerable, it is not a disaster and not likely to be a substantial loss either.

Finally, 3C is advantaged if LHO competes in hearts (usually to 3H given your heart holding). After 3H is passed back to you (or if partner speaks up with 3S), you have an easy 3NT rebid.
[/quoteAnd you perhaps fervently hope that they don't cash 5 /6 diamond tricks first.]

[1eyedjack]

gfroeli, on 2016-July-09, 18:11, said:

To me 3 or 4 H seems to be a good bid since p is showing 6 and you have 3 honors to AK.

If you mistakenly thought that partner had opened 2H then 3H would be a gross underbid