[rmcubed56]

I was hoping for somewhere people would be less rude, and where one could, if one wished, play at a slightly slower pace, but an opponent recently chastised me for not playing fast enough (10 seconds to make a bid) and referred me to the BBO help saying "relaxed doesn't mean slow".

I did have a look at help and couldn't find anything describing what the difference is, so I thought I would ask here...

[Kaitlyn S]

rmcubed56, on 2016-August-15, 10:29, said:

I was hoping for somewhere people would be less rude, and where one could, if one wished, play at a slightly slower pace, but an opponent recently chastised me for not playing fast enough (10 seconds to make a bid) and referred me to the BBO help saying "relaxed doesn't mean slow".

I did have a look at help and couldn't find anything describing what the difference is, so I thought I would ask here...

In my very limited experience, the players in the relaxed bridge club are much nicer, less argumentative, and less critical of their partners (and opponents!) which is a good thing because I'm pretty sure at least half the "advice" I get in the main bridge club is wrong.

What you are pointing out is a problem. Newer players need more time to bid and I think they should get it, but I can see that I'm in the minority. Several times I have seen someone say "too slow" and leave (good riddance!) or tell someone they have to bid more quickly (maybe after 3-4 seconds for a bid!) I have mentioned to the complainer (often my random partner who was trying to rush an opponent) that I thought bridge was a thinking game.

One thing that might help is if you put "bidding might be slow" in the table description. You might attract players who are relieved that they don't have to rush. Unluckily, you may also attract someone who clicks "Take me to the first table." I would guess that if you announce that the bidding might be slow to the table, some may leave but you will eventually get 4 players who want to play at your pace, and I would presume that the relaxed club would work better.

Maybe someone who is familiar with the BIL might weigh in on whether the OP would be happier there?

[kenberg]

True, relaxed does not mean slow. But also, relaxed does not mean bid and play with little thought. Relaxed means relaxed.

Relaxed, to me, means not getting in someone's face. If the pace is too slow for a player, he could relax and play at the slower pace or he could relax, take a deep breath, and politely that say he will be leaving after the next hand. People differ, and relaxed means that you take it easy when things don't go just the way you would like.

Going to the Relaxed club and getting huffy seems wrong to me, but I'll just relax about it.

And yes, a host might include a few words. :Fast play appreciated" or "relaxed and no rushing". Something like that.

[rmcubed56]

rmcubed56, on 2016-August-15, 10:29, said:

I was hoping for somewhere people would be less rude, and where one could, if one wished, play at a slightly slower pace, but an opponent recently chastised me for not playing fast enough (10 seconds to make a bid) and referred me to the BBO help saying "relaxed doesn't mean slow".

I did have a look at help and couldn't find anything describing what the difference is, so I thought I would ask here...

Thank you to both respondents for their thoughtful - and relaxed - response :->

[rmcubed56]

Thanks to both respondents for their thoughtful - and relaxed - responses...

[661_Pete]

The difficulty with any online system, is that you can't see what your fellow players are up to. They may well be momentarily distracted, say by a phone call or a 'call of nature'. Playing live bridge face-to-face, at least it's obvious (well, the 'call of nature' thing is usually fairly obvious.... ).

I often, on BBO, spend a moment or two scanning the traveller from the previous hand, just to see how other tables fared. This means I get distracted, and am sometimes not as prompt as I should be in my bidding. No-one has castigated me for that - the nearest I've come to it is remarks like "your bid Pete" or "are you there Pete?". Indeed that's exactly what I'd put in the chatline, if another player seems unduly slow. But I always give them plenty of time before resorting to that.

Anyone who behaves in a more confrontational way is out of order, in my view, and I wouldn't regard such a person as welcome on my table. How BBO deals with individuals who have a history of reported unpleasantness - well, that's for them to consider.

But having said that - we live in the age of online, anonymous personalities on social media. There are trolls everywhere. Nearly everyone and his dog has suffered abuse of some sort if they inhabit Twitter or the like (I don't! ). We just have to live with it....

[1eyedjack]

rmcubed56, on 2016-August-15, 10:29, said:

I was hoping for somewhere people would be less rude, and where one could, if one wished, play at a slightly slower pace, but an opponent recently chastised me for not playing fast enough (10 seconds to make a bid) and referred me to the BBO help saying "relaxed doesn't mean slow".

I did have a look at help and couldn't find anything describing what the difference is, so I thought I would ask here...

So one player chastises you for being slow. And from this you extrapolate that the relaxed room is no less rude than the main room. Hmm.

[thepossum]

Hi

I've been on BBO for several months and spent a great deal of time kibitzing before summing up courage to create my own table with the description that it was to be a very relaxed and friendly table. My partner was lovely. We agreed our convention then two ops showed up. Didn't even say hello. After our second hand I was having a short chat with my partner about a difference in our responses to 2NT at the previous hand. We each were used to different systems.

One op interrupted our short chat and told me to bid. I said to him that I had set the table up as relaxed and was briefly clarifying our system.

He disappeared along with the other op and sent me an abusive private message. In fact his behaviour was so bullying and offensiveehe uset me so much I had to leave my own table because I was so upset. It was my first time hosting a table and finding a nice partner to play with, to have it ruined by one of the resident bullies.

This is the sort of behaviour I have often observed. Many people are courteous, some sociable and relaxed. But many don't even introduce themselves. There are none of the usual pleasantries of typ, WPP, wpo. People disappear without thanking people for the game. Then at the extreme end are the very rude ones who berate others for slow play and demand players be removed. I recently admonished an advanced player for berating a novice, probably in their first table. The table was hosted by a beginner who also had a novice at the table. Why did an advanced player join only to berate and bully both the novice and the table host. If I ran a club that advanced layer would be immediately asked to leave and never be welcome in the club again. I am sure it is deliberate targetting and bullying by some problem people who like hurting others.

It could be good if the more experienced players showed advanced behaviour rather than beginner behaviour. Good etiquette is one of the first things I learned as a player.

The relaxed club is by no means as relaxed and friendly as it should be. Those rude players should be in the main club. It seems as if there are some who actually enjoy going around the relaxed club and upsetting players. Maybe we need a way to exclude the bullies.

I concur with the OP. I find it quite a hostile and unwelcoming environment at times. I've played in face to face clubs. Somr are friendly. Some are not. Surely we would want the dominant culture of the relaxed club to be friendly and understanding.

Regards P

[thepossum]

Dear all

Followup. Since I posted this I have received many kind invitations from players to have an occasional few hands, either in relaxed or in other less formal clubs. However for a range of reasons I am yet to have a (more than 3-4 hands) relaxed game with any group of four players. The most fun I had was with a friend when we played against bots for a few hours. At least we had full control over the table, pace of play, could discuss systems and hands afterwards and we didn't have any rude behaviour from the bot.

However recently one of my recent new friendly acquaintances invited me to a a table for a game. I accepted and had arrived at the table, said "hello everyone", had just agreed with partner to play standard SAYC. This took approximately 15-25 seconds and I was removed from the table by the host.

1. I had just arrived at the table and said hello
2. I was just agreeing my system
3. The phone app can be a bit slow and fiddly and occasionally slow to switch between play and chat on slower data conenctions or slower phones

I was extremely upset. My pd contacted me to play on another table but I cannot play after that kind of behaviour. I need to be relaxed to play bridge, not under permanent anxiety conditions. He suggested that the reason I was booted was not that the host was bad but that the host was anxious/worried about my 10-15 second delay in bidding

This begs the question

Either the behaviour by the host in the club is in line with club expectations and unreasonable. Or the hosts are placed under unreasonable demands and expectations by other players and feel anxious enough to boot people (the latter is what I have observed and experienced). Either way the culture of the club is rather (politely) unrelaxed or (less politely) plain rude and aggressive

cheers the Possum

One day I may actually get to have a nice game of cards in the relaxed club but I suspect it will only be with a group of 3 friends. So what is the point. I can play with my friends anywhere

[barmar]

I think the only technical difference between the Relaxed Bridge Club and the Main Bridge Club is that the popup reminder to play if you don't bid or play for 30 seconds is disabled. Also, I think "Help me find a game" only sends people to the Main Bridge Club. That means that players have to explicitly seek out tables in the relaxed club, they won't be seated there randomly.

Other than that, it's just a name that's supposed to set expectations. There are no hall monitors making sure everyone behaves nicely. If someone acts eggregiously (insults, racial epithets, etc.) you should report them to abuse@bridgebase.com, no matter which club it is.

[pescetom]

barmar, on 2018-November-04, 17:11, said:

If someone acts eggregiously

Shurely eggredsciously ? (just a yoke)