RHO opens 4 spades
#1
Posted 2016-December-15, 11:01
1. What is the mainstream use of double for your hand? (If you know the answer of course)
2. What do you think double should mean? Penalty? Take-out? Values? (Whatever that means)or something else
This hand came up:
♠QJ95
♥97
♦AKQ8
♣986
If you play double for penalty you are odds on (but not certain) to get a reward.
If you play double showing values god knows where you will land.
If you play double for take-out then you would pass in tempo here and be amazed if partner balanced with a take out double.
OH! Another question. Any different if RHO opens 4♥?
Oct 2006: Mission impossible
Soon: Mission illegal
#3
Posted 2016-December-15, 16:54
If you play it as showing values that are suitable for either offence or defence, partner can now make a semi-informed decision about whether or not to compete. That way the number of hands we can win on goes up, which more than offsets the losses when we can't double for penalty.
A double of 4H is similar in nature but partner is more likely to bid 4S. Hence you can reasonably describe it as 'takeout', even though partner will often pass with a flattish hand and nowhere good to go. There is no strict boundary where it becomes pure penalty rather than pure takeout - it's a gradual transition starting at 1C and continuing all the way up.
#4
Posted 2016-December-15, 20:08
#5
Posted 2016-December-15, 20:59
As for the given hand, it is a poor penalty double if opener is short in ♦. It is also too weak to act if you switch the ♠ and ♥. I woudl pass and hope to set them.
We will never get rich waiting for a trump stack when good opponents open 4 bids. Better to have 3 suits or much extra in a balanced hand (better frequency and more penalties).
Trust demands integrity, balance and collaboration.
District 11
Unit 124
Steve Moese
#6
Posted 2016-December-16, 13:51
I think most people play doubles of preempts thru 4 ♥ as takeout. Doubles of 4 ♠ and higher show values.
Here, you've got a 12 count of which 3 are in the opponent's suit. Partner is a passed hand, so a 5 level contract is unlikely to make. If preemptor has the normal 8+ ♠, partner has at most a stiff ♠ and is very likely to pull a double.
You have 2 tricks in the ♠ suit and can see that they are in a bad spot. Let them play it there.
#7
Posted 2017-January-31, 10:08
#8
Posted 2017-January-31, 10:12
#9
Posted 2017-January-31, 11:18
Winner - BBO Challenge bracket #6 - February, 2017.
#10
Posted 2017-January-31, 13:02
Phil, on 2017-January-31, 11:18, said:
Also, while double of 4H is takeout, I'm not sure this hand is good enough. You don't think you can get caught? I've seen some players make strong 4H and 4S bids in third seat (thinking slam is unlikely) and then reopen with a double to express those values.
#11
Posted 2017-January-31, 13:46
I'm passing with this hand. 4 ♠ doesn't rate to be a particularly good spot, but then again preemptor's partner has not been heard from. With LHO holding the right big hand and with preemptor holding a stiff or void in ♦, 4 ♠ could be a make.
If partner finds a reopening double, playing 4 ♠ doubled looks a lot better.
#12
Posted 2017-January-31, 15:02
rmnka447, on 2017-January-31, 13:46, said:
I'm passing with this hand. 4 ♠ doesn't rate to be a particularly good spot, but then again preemptor's partner has not been heard from. With LHO holding the right big hand and with preemptor holding a stiff or void in ♦, 4 ♠ could be a make.
If partner finds a reopening double, playing 4 ♠ doubled looks a lot better.
#13
Posted 2017-January-31, 17:36
#14
Posted 2017-February-04, 10:56
If parner reopens with dbl i will pass
#15
Posted 2017-February-04, 15:22
wank, on 2017-January-31, 17:36, said:
Haha. The "I wish partner had done something intelligent" double.
#16
Posted 2017-February-04, 21:46
1. What is the mainstream use of double for your hand? (If you know the answer of course)
2. What do you think double should mean? Penalty? Take-out? Values? (Whatever that means) or something else
If you play double for penalty you are odds on (but not certain) to get a reward.
If you play double showing values god knows where you will land.
If you play double for take-out then you would pass in tempo here and be amazed if partner balanced with a take out double.
OH! Another question. Any different if RHO opens 4♥?"
I rank
1. Pass = NAT
2. Double = OPT. High card values. Inadvisable, especially opposite a passed partner.
- Some partnerships agree that double of 4♠ is penalty but most partnerships define the double as values. For example, partner takes out with a reasonable 6 card suit or a two-suiter. Tim Rees says that double shows the cards you hold. But I think he'd disapprove of a trump stack like this.
- Most partnerships require a double of 4♥ to have primary ♠ support or sufficient power to handle a 4♠ advance. Hence it's more take-out oriented,