[straube]

K QJ963 J64 AQT3

AT73 A85 AK5 K92


South is captain. Let's say North shows pattern and 6 QPs at 3S.
I'm going to count the stiff K as 1. Revising per Zel's suggestion to look for stiff Qs (counting as 0)

1) With rules of short to long (and stop with odd for singleton or doubleton), king parity last

4C-4D stiff honor
4H-4S even diamond
4N-5C even club
5D-5N odd heart, first odd has a king
Cards placed
6C-6H HJ, no CJ

2) With rules of short to long (and stop with odd for singleton or doubleton), king parity first

4C-4D even kings (the singleton king doesn't count as a king here)
4H-4S stiff honor
4N-5C even diamond
Cards placed
5D-5H even club
5S-6C odd heart
6D-6S HJ, no CJ

3) With rules of long to short (and stop for singleton only), K parity last

4C-4H odd heart, even club
4S-4N even diamond
5C-5D stiff honor
5H-5S no K first odd
Cards placed
5N-6D heart J, no club J

4) With rules of long to short (and stop for singleton only), K parity first


4C-4D even kings (the singleton king doesn't count as a king here)
4H-4S odd heart, even club
4N-5C even diamond
Cards placed
5D-5H stiff honor
5S-6C heart J, no club J

[Zelandakh]

Does a stiff Q not count as an honour in your methods? If so, why can North not hold ♠Q, ♥K, ♣AQ? On balance, it is probably better if a stiff queen is not shown as an honour on the first round. Finally, why are you bothering to check for ♥J? Once you are committed to slam, it is irrelevant as seven is never in the picture.

For reference, basic DCBs locate everything at 5NT (ie worse than PCBs) regardless of whether you go the relay route or use a queen ask but here there is a significant difference - the queen ask is under the safety threshold, relays not.

[straube]

Zelandakh, on 2017-October-18, 00:39, said:

Does a stiff Q not count as an honour in your methods? If so, why can North not hold ♠Q, ♥K, ♣AQ? On balance, it is probably better if a stiff queen is not shown as an honour on the first round.

I'll revise it to count the stiff Q as an honor and count it as 0.
The king parity last methods really suffer with this change (would seem they always would)

Zelandakh, on 2017-October-18, 00:39, said:

Finally, why are you bothering to check for ♥J? Once you are committed to slam, it is irrelevant as seven is never in the picture.

I know that! I wanted to compare how long each method takes. Some might give me the top honor picture early but take too long to find the jacks.

Zelandakh, on 2017-October-18, 00:39, said:

For reference, basic DCBs locate everything at 5NT (ie worse than PCBs) regardless of whether you go the relay route or use a queen ask but here there is a significant difference - the queen ask is under the safety threshold, relays not.

You're welcome to bid your own method here (or ones you want to try out).

[foobar]

straube, on 2017-October-17, 19:13, said:

K QJ963 J64 AQT3

AT73 A85 AK5 K92


South is captain. Let's say North shows pattern and 6 QPs at 3S.

With IMP (long to short, skip with odd-parity unless singleton, K-parity in suit with a single honour, K=2 always):

3♠: 7 QPs

4C...4H (relay; odd ♥, even ♣, so H(K|Q) with few others at this point)
4S...4N (relay; even ♦, ergo no D(Q))
5C...5D (relay; exception for K(S))

At this point, we are down to 5 QPs outside ♠, that must be distributed across (♥+♣). Since H(K) = 2 implies C(A) = 3 and violates even clubs, the only possible holding is the above. K-parity is perfunctory since we already know that responder can't hold H(K).

[foobar]

straube, on 2017-October-17, 19:13, said:

K QJ963 J64 AQT3

AT73 A85 AK5 K92

Here's a Byzantine method with the following rules:

1) K-parity first (with K=2 QPs always)
2) Singletons and doubleton suits are scanned first, with ties broken in rank order. Skip with nothing or stop with A/K
3) 4+ cards suits are scanned in length order with ties broken in rank order. Stop with even and continue with odd

3♠: 7 QPs
4♣ - 4♥ (relay; odd K-parity, K♠) -> At this point, slam is dubious
4♠ - 5♦ (relay; odd hearts (Q♥, even ♣)

Since we must have the C(A) to make up the remaining 4QPs, C(Q) follows.

[yunling]

4♣-4♥(ask 1&2, 0/3/6)

Now you know it is 3 and either
1) ♥KQ+♣A
2) ♥K+♣AQ
3) ♥Q+♣AQ+♦Q
4) ♥Q+♣AQ+♠K

And you probably want to play 6♥ opposite all of them.

If it continues then
4♠-5♦(ask 2&3, 2/5&stiff honor)
cards placed

[sieong]

EPCB.
4♣ - 5♥ (odd ♥, odd♠, even ♦ even ♣, ♠K + ♥Q)

Honor structure resolved.

[nullve]

straube, on 2017-October-17, 19:13, said:

K QJ963 J64 AQT3

AT73 A85 AK5 K92

With some ambiguity left out:

(...)
3♠-4♣ (11-13 hcp (say); relay)
4♥-4♠ (stiff K; relay)
4N-5♣ (even # of non-singleton Ks; relay)
5♦-5♥ (even # of Qs; relay)
6♦-? (♥Q, ♣Q, ♥J, no ♣J; ?). )

This post has been edited by nullve: 2017-November-13, 10:08