[bluenikki]

120248, on 2020-May-02, 14:57, said:

I am south

Partner open 1♠ in 3rd position.
I respond 2♠ and partner jump to 4.


My hand : ♠109632 ♥Q754 ♦ 82 ♣ K7

Partner : ♠ AQJ74 ♥ --- ♦ AK53 ♣ AJ93

After the hand, partner said i was too conservative. Should bid 4 instead of 2.
I said that opps are 2 passed hands and p open in 3rd position. If he has a minimum opening hand
he will perhaps go down. The fact of bidding immediately 4 is like i was prempting partner.

What do u think of that ? ty

The responding hand potentially covers 4 losers, leaving out the possibility of the 10th trump covering a loser.

Single raise shows 3 potential covers, so is an underbid. Basically, it assumes the ♦ queen is useless.

Jumping to 4 assumes essentially that opener lacks the ♠ queen, so that the 10th trump is not a duplicated value.

Personally, I raise to 3.

[bluenikki]

bluenikki, on 2020-May-03, 07:58, said:

The responding hand potentially covers 4 losers, leaving out the possibility of the 10th trump covering a loser.

Single raise shows 3 potential covers, so is an underbid. Basically, it assumes the ♦ queen is useless.

Jumping to 4 assumes essentially that opener lacks the ♠ queen, so that the 10th trump is not a duplicated value.

Personally, I raise to 3.

Oops, I meant the ♥ queen. Which was indeed useless as it turned out.

[bluenikki]

Tramticket, on 2020-May-03, 02:43, said:

The sequence 1S-4S shows a hand weak in high-card strength with distributional strength. The reason for taking up three rounds of bidding is to deny the opposition the space to compete. It is foolish to jump to 4S here because (a) the opposition have had the opportunity to bid, but have remained silent; (b) you own the boss spade suit; © you have a semi-balanced five points.

There are many hands you could construct for partner where 2S might fail, never mind 4.

I would raise to 2S, but I would be prepared to compete to 3S.



Really? I count 9 losers.

8: 3 in ♠, 2 in ♥, 2 in ♦, 1 in ♣

[bluenikki]

Cyberyeti, on 2020-May-03, 04:47, said:

I think more normal to add 1 for a queen not balanced by an ace.

that is for opener, not responder

[msjennifer]

Sirs, the South hand is too strong as played in Spades for a very conservative bid of 2S. IN fact most will try 4S .
It is not clear if the pair plays Drury(or reverse Drury for that matter).If they do then a conclusion can be drawn that the responders hand is a preemptive distributional hand with long spades.He is not making any of the other sub 4S bid even taking into account that the 1S bid is a third hand bid and the 4th hand has Passed.If I believe in my partner's preemptive bid in such circumstances I shall apply the LTC here.Passing 4S is indeed timid with ONLY FOUR LOSERS and shows the pessimistic approach of NORTH and is very strange.Anyone in North seat will take some action towards a slam.With no information available on the table I shall take responder to have a Eight losers hand and as per LTC jump to SIX spades There is nothing wrong with a 4S response by South and I, personally, consider it a 100% crime to pass on part of NORTH.Of course it is easy to construct hands ,after seeing all 26 cards ,where 6S may go down as well as where even 7S will be cold for that matter.One has to remember on the table that both opponents are passed hands and so there is no reason to pre empt, And if partner thinks that we can make 9 tricks ,by say a bid of 3S, against a third hand opening then the given hand certainly deserves to investigate a grand and lacking these a direct SIX spade bid.THANKS.Sorry for giving a long explanation but ,personally, I feel it is desirable in this particular case.

[msjennifer]

bluenikki, on 2020-May-03, 08:06, said:

8: 3 in ♠, 2 in ♥, 2 in ♦, 1 in ♣

Sir,
with a 10 card fit ,to count three losers in spade suit means all SAKQ are missing and that too concentrated in one hand.Two ,and not three ,losers in a 10 card fit is correct

[msjennifer]

Tramticket, on 2020-May-03, 02:43, said:

The sequence 1S-4S shows a hand weak in high-card strength with distributional strength. The reason for taking up three rounds of bidding is to deny the opposition the space to compete. It is foolish to jump to 4S here because (a) the opposition have had the opportunity to bid, but have remained silent; (b) you own the boss spade suit; © you have a semi-balanced five points.

There are many hands you could construct for partner where 2S might fail, never mind 4.

I would raise to 2S, but I would be prepared to compete to 3S.



Really? I count 9 losers.

Sir,
sorry but there is some pessimistic count of losers.TWO in spades as there is a 10 card fit, TWO in hearts,Two in Diamonds and ONE in clubs .That counts to SEVEN (As per my estimate.) A fearful one shall count as eight losers but certainly not nine.(as played in spades as trumps).

[AL78]

msjennifer, on 2020-May-03, 10:04, said:

Sir,
sorry but there is some pessimistic count of losers.TWO in spades as there is a 10 card fit, TWO in hearts,Two in Diamonds and ONE in clubs .That counts to SEVEN (As per my estimate.) A fearful one shall count as eight losers but certainly not nine.(as played in spades as trumps).

I'd count Qxx(x) as two and a half losers if it is in a suit partner hasn't shown.

[aawk]

Tramticket, on 2020-May-03, 04:35, said:

There are various suggestions on how to adjust the loser count. Many add a loser for an ace-less hand!

Yes but that is only for a openings bid not for a response,

If you open weak its the other way around so the responder got a extra loser for holding no aces

[aawk]

AL78, on 2020-May-03, 11:33, said:

I'd count Qxx(x) as two and a half losers if it is in a suit partner hasn't shown.

With the LTC you can distract 1 loser so if you have 2 extra trumps it only counts as 1 LTC not 2

And counting half losers is not my style so Qxx is 3 losers but if you hold Qxx in trump its 2 losers

[2L8]

I am surprised that no one has said that opener missed. With 20 hi card its and a void I would have opened 2 C

[Angel_6]

Too sad if you can only bid 2♠ or 4♠
In this case you have to guess

I'd suggest you describe your hand and let parter decide
For 2♠ you have 2 spade cards too many, so I'd rule this out. Even with 5332 distribution a 5 card support is too much for 2♠.
For 3♠ (weak) you are a bit too strong. For a limit bid 3♠ you are a bit weak.
For 4♠ you should have a bit more distribution. However, I would bid 4♠ if partner had opened in first position.
I like 3♣ if this shows 4 card support weaker than a limit raise (Bergen).
I also like 2♣, if this is Drury, and partner can tell you if he has an opening and/or 5 card spade suit at all.

[nige1]

Cyberyeti, on 2020-May-03, 03:40, said:

Nigel, you left the ♣K out of the south hand.

Sorry Thank you Corrected

[hrothgar]

2L8, on 2020-May-03, 12:59, said:

I am surprised that no one has said that opener missed. With 20 hi card its and a void I would have opened 2 C

May people strive to not open 2♣ with two and three suited hands

[pescetom]

hrothgar, on 2020-May-03, 14:37, said:

May people strive to not open 2♣ with two and three suited hands

Especially opposite a passed hand.

[ruleof15]

120248, on 2020-May-02, 14:57, said:

I am south

Partner open 1♠ in 3rd position.
I respond 2♠ and partner jump to 4.


My hand : ♠109632 ♥Q754 ♦ 82 ♣ K7

Partner : ♠ AQJ74 ♥ --- ♦ AK53 ♣ AJ93

After the hand, partner said i was too conservative. Should bid 4 instead of 2.
I said that opps are 2 passed hands and p open in 3rd position. If he has a minimum opening hand
he will perhaps go down. The fact of bidding immediately 4 is like i was prempting partner.

What do u think of that ? ty

[ruleof15]

I am a firm believer of all new suits are forcing. After the 2S raise, a 3C bid is forcing. So, responder can bid 3S or even if bids 4S opener can bid 5D.This should elicit a 6S bid by responder after the 2 pushes. Especially with doubleton K in clubs.

[helene_t]

I don't see how 4♠ from you would help. Partner will have to gamble that you don't have too much length in the minor suits. After 2♠, at least he can try 3♣. If you take that as asking for a colaborating honour in clubs, you will respond positively and he can bid slam.

Do you play Drury? In that case, maybe 3♠ would show something like this. But otherwise, 2♠ is normal.

[fourdad]

TylerE, on 2020-May-02, 16:55, said:

I'm strongly in the 4♠ camp.

Don't walk the dog.

Are the opps 2 passed hands?
4S without a thought.

[shaky44]

I would bid 2S with your hand. To me, 4S in this spot describes a 7 loser hand. I think different partnerships can have different agreements, but that's the way I play it.

From your partner's point of view, I struggle to imagine south with a 8-9 point hand that doesn't give me a play for 6S.

nekthen, on 2020-May-03, 01:05, said:

Partner does not have to just bid 4♠
He could try an asking bid of 3♣ now you can help so bid 4♠ and again, I think partner has enough to bid 6

This is probably the best route to get there.