[Winstonm]

2/1 with no frills. Support doubles through 2S.

2D Lead.

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[akwoo]

I suspect the pair needs agreements about 3♥ and followups that they don't have (and I don't have). For one thing, is either 3♠ or 4♦ after the 3♥ bid forcing?

[smerriman]

Seems like a normal auction to me. - 3♥ might have just been looking for a no trump stopper with 4 spades, so North can't do anything else, and South has no idea about the singleton heart and perfect fitting cards.

[mw64ahw]

For me the 3♥ cue-bid says GF 5+♠ with extras opposite the support X

2♠ - nowhere else to go
3/4♠ - 5+♠ w. defined strength
2NT - GI 4♠ w. partial ♥ stopper
3♣ - 4♠ with something in ♣
3♦ - 4♠ & 4+♦


Either 3♠ or a control showing 4♣ seems appropriate from North indicating slam interest so I guess South's reticence to bid 4♣ is the issue if you're hoping to land in 6♠. Personally, I bid 4♣ as North as that would show both a ♠ honour and ♣ control.

[LBengtsson]

25 point slam do not usually get bid. I do not like 3♥ bid. West would not come into auction red with a passed partner with 2♥ without a good suit. So South bidding 3♥ here is not a good bid imo. you know you have 8 card ♠ fit, good honour card in ♦ and enough for game. I would prefer to bid 3♣ here. if partner has a ♥ stop they can bid 3NT, if not either 3♦ or 3♠. It is easier for South to determine final contract already knowing about 8 card ♠ fit.

[DavidKok]

Confirming/denying a fit over a support double is a vital part of the convention, and leads to many mistakes at the table.

[Cyberyeti]

mw64ahw, on 2021-October-18, 02:12, said:

For me the 3♥ cue-bid says GF 5+♠ with extras opposite the support X

2♠ - nowhere else to go
3/4♠ - 5+♠ w. defined strength
2NT - GI 4♠ w. partial ♥ stopper
3♣ - 4♠ with something in ♣
3♦ - 4♠ & 4+♦


Either 3♠ or a control showing 4♣ seems appropriate from North indicating slam interest so I guess South's reticence to bid 4♣ is the issue if you're hoping to land in 6♠. Personally, I bid 4♣ as North as that would show both a ♠ honour and ♣ control.

The problem is that the card partner probably wants to know about in your hand is the ♦K more than the ♣A, I think I would bid 4♦ to show that, partner can ask for aces if he wants or bid 4♥ whether that's a cue or LTTC for you (cue for us).

[mw64ahw]

Cyberyeti, on 2021-October-18, 03:50, said:

The problem is that the card partner probably wants to know about in your hand is the ♦K more than the ♣A, I think I would bid 4♦ to show that, partner can ask for aces if he wants or bid 4♥ whether that's a cue or LTTC for you (cue for us).

Its not a problem if North bids 4♣ as 4♦ then shows the ♦ control.

After 3♠ :
4♣ ctrl & 2♠ honours - 4♦ ctrl
4♠ denies ♥ ctrl - 4NT (2KCs)
5♦ K♦ - 6♠

The slam itself looks marginal from the outset with 25 hcp, but 5♠ should be safe so you can afford to enquire.

[Cyberyeti]

mw64ahw, on 2021-October-18, 04:19, said:

Its not a problem if North bids 4♣ as 4♦ then shows the ♦ control.

After 3♠ :
4♣ ctrl & 2♠ honours - 4♦ ctrl
4♠ denies ♥ ctrl - 4NT (2KCs)
5♦ K♦ - 6♠

The slam itself looks marginal from the outset with 25 hcp, but 5♠ should be safe so you can afford to enquire.

You'd better bid 6♦ then particularly if you play LTTC as it may become difficult to determine which ace south holds. I was thinking over 3♠ rather than over 3♥, I really dislike bidding a K here without significant extra values (say the auction goes 4♣-X-4♠ and now you've pinpointed the club lead opposite partner's AQJxx, Qxx, KJ, Jxx and they take 2 clubs a club ruff and a heart when without this he had a nice ♥J109x to lead from)

[mw64ahw]

Cyberyeti, on 2021-October-18, 04:39, said:

You'd better bid 6♦ then particularly if you play LTTC as it may become difficult to determine which ace south holds. I was thinking over 3♠ rather than over 3♥, I really dislike bidding a K here without significant extra values (say the auction goes 4♣-X-4♠ and now you've pinpointed the club lead opposite partner's AQJxx, Qxx, KJ, Jxx and they take 2 clubs a club ruff and a heart when without this he had a nice ♥J109x to lead from)

I don't play LTTC, but basic ITL Q Bids hence the 4♠ bid denying ♥ ctrl.
After 4NT I bid 5♠ with a single Ace. By default this leaves North knowing South has A♣ & ♠.
After 5♦ North has the option to bid 5♥ with a void if there is a potential grand.

[Cyberyeti]

mw64ahw, on 2021-October-18, 04:57, said:

I don't play LTTC, but basic ITL Q Bids hence the 4♠ bid denying ♥ ctrl.
After 4NT I bid 5♠ with a single Ace. By default this leaves North knowing South has A♣ & ♠.
After 5♦ North has the option to bid 5♥ with a void if there is a potential grand.

Yes basic cue bids work (I play them too), but it can be disastrous particularly at pairs to pinpoint the club lead when partner was signing off.

[Winstonm]

East's silence doesn't help declaring side find their way. The 3H cue could have been a concern about the 3 small hearts and possible heart ruffs if north held KJx of hearts and east a singleton. With no clear-cut agreements, it's hard to know what to do with the north hand - but I would think 4D would express this hand better than 3S. 3S is redundant.

But even over 4D it's hard to imagine anything other than 4S from south unless the 4D confirmed a singleton heart, which, without agreement, I don't think is the case.

[Winstonm]

LBengtsson, on 2021-October-18, 03:01, said:

25 point slam do not usually get bid. I do not like 3♥ bid. West would not come into auction red with a passed partner with 2♥ without a good suit. So South bidding 3♥ here is not a good bid imo. you know you have 8 card ♠ fit, good honour card in ♦ and enough for game. I would prefer to bid 3♣ here. if partner has a ♥ stop they can bid 3NT, if not either 3♦ or 3♠. It is easier for South to determine final contract already knowing about 8 card ♠ fit.

You make good points. A problem is simply lack of agreements - for example, would 3D be forcing or a passable game try? 3C should be forcing but does it over-express the strength of the south hand? 3H isn't real good but at least it is known to be forcing to game.

[apollo1201]

Winstonm, on 2021-October-18, 09:27, said:

You make good points. A problem is simply lack of agreements - for example, would 3D be forcing or a passable game try? 3C should be forcing but does it over-express the strength of the south hand? 3H isn't real good but at least it is known to be forcing to game.

Should really 3C be forcing? What do you do with say Qxxx xx x AJTxxx or equivalent, now that partner forced you to bid?

To me, X promises a non minimum hand, I pass with a non descript 3244 and 12 or 13 points. X should therefore often have some real diamonds (5431 or a pure 5332 hand). The hand qualifies but is now minimum, nothing spare left. Over 3H (looks like a stop inquiry with only 4 spades), 4D is probably the most descriptive, after all, 5D (or more) is in the picture if partner can’t bid 3NT. And if it was an anticipated (but very ambiguous) cue, even better.

Over that, S hand is exciting and the DK is gold. I wish I were brave enough to cue C so that partner confirms they have the sg H. But that looks more en route to 6D rather than 6S.

Having defined follow ups is therefore the key.

[DavidKok]

The double was a support double. This has major impact on the followups.