[jillybean]

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[smerriman]

MP or IMP? 3♠ will probably do for me either way. I don't see any chance of 4♠ making with at least Kxx marked on our left, and it's not like it's preemptively sacrificing over their 4 level game.

[pescetom]

I trust my partner to have 3 cards and some values, 4♠ looks ok for now.
If they have 5♣ vulnerable and weren't going to find it otherwise then I head to a better club next time (not always possible, admittedly).

[jillybean]

MP
We have spades, lots of them. As smerriman says. my LHO is marked with Kxx or worse, KJT, do I really want to bid 4S?

[Cyberyeti]

 jillybean, on 2023-March-17, 13:50, said:

MP
We have spades, lots of them. As smerriman says. my LHO is marked with Kxx or worse, KJT, do I really want to bid 4S?

xxx is a TERRIBLE holding to raise to 2♠ on in this particular auction for exactly that reason.

[jillybean]

 Cyberyeti, on 2023-March-17, 14:19, said:

xxx is a TERRIBLE holding to raise to 2♠ on in this particular auction for exactly that reason.

(1♣) 1♠ X
Would you pass with xxx,Kxx,Kxxx,xxx , xxx,Axx,Kxxx,xxx ?

[Cyberyeti]

 jillybean, on 2023-March-17, 18:11, said:

(1♣) 1♠ X
Would you pass with xxx,Kxx,Kxxx,xxx , xxx,Axx,Kxxx,xxx ?

Of course not, but it wasn't a double, it was 1N showing at least one spade stop, it's specifically this auction where it's problematic, where you know the spades are wrong rather than a double where they're likely to be right

[LBengtsson]

 smerriman, on 2023-March-17, 12:49, said:

MP or IMP? 3♠ will probably do for me either way. I don't see any chance of 4♠ making with at least Kxx marked on our left, and it's not like it's preemptively sacrificing over their 4 level game.

Agree. Bidding up to the level of the fit is not a total rule when you have a bit of knowledge where the cards are. Either partner has bid up to the level of the fit on garbage or he has some useful defensive cards. If on garbage you do not want to be in 4♠, and he will need exactly the right defensive offensive cards for 4♠ to make.

I am happy to let the opps. play in 4♣ here. East might have stretched to 3♣. You are not going to bounce them into 5♣ if you decide to bid 4♠ immediately, and I think it is a 80% chance you will go down in a 4♠ contract. I would rather be cautious here even at white/red.

[TMorris]

You need to know your opponents which you will do in a club. Are they the people who bid 1nt with any balanced hand? I've seen some bidfding like this with 10xx as their spade suit.....

[jillybean]

 Cyberyeti, on 2023-March-18, 03:11, said:

Of course not, but it wasn't a double, it was 1N showing at least one spade stop, it's specifically this auction where it's problematic, where you know the spades are wrong rather than a double where they're likely to be right

With same cards after (1C) 1S (1NT) you would pass?

[jillybean]

 TMorris, on 2023-March-18, 05:36, said:

You need to know your opponents which you will do in a club. Are they the people who bid 1nt with any balanced hand? I've seen some bidfding like this with 10xx as their spade suit.....

That is not always the case unless it is your regular club. The title was in reference to the level or play rather than familiarity with players.

[Cyberyeti]

 jillybean, on 2023-March-18, 08:04, said:

With same cards after (1C) 1S (1NT) you would pass?

Playing what I play with VERY sound 1/1 overcalls I would consider doubling on a lot less than you would.

I would probably pass those hands because they're flat and my trumps might not be that useful, unless partner has a second suit they're not ruffing anything in my hand.

I take the point this is a more awkward problem if 1N is on shape and doesn't necessarily show a spade stop.

[jillybean]

Ok, thanks.
Here is the full hand.

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[Cyberyeti]

W's extra terrestrial 1N has done you here, for most people this is X or 2♥ both of which I would bid 2♠ over. 4♠ is an extremely lucky make, 3 is probably where I want to be at pairs I think, particularly on that auction.

[AL78]

Although I have arrived at this thread late and have seen the hand, my inclination before seeing the hand was to bid 4♠, not necessarily because it might make but because it might be better than letting them play in a club partscore, and at my club, players tend to be super-aggreessive and will bid 4♣ at the slightest excuse (and make it). Turns out I would have massively fluked it on this layout but that doesn't mean it was the right bid and I can see the reasoning for a more disciplined 3♠.

Presumably if defending a club contract, you lead the spade ace, partner signals for a diamond switch with the 2, then you underlead the ace and take three diamond tricks, followed by the heart king eventually.

[pescetom]

 jillybean, on 2023-March-18, 12:34, said:

Ok, thanks.
Here is the full hand.

As I implied and Cyberyeti spelled out, EW must be playing games if partner can be trusted.
If not then it was better to be somewhere else doing something different.

[jillybean]

I find it so difficult to maintain discipline when playing club games like this. It becomes a practice session and I'm likely to go on a tilt.