[strong 1c]

You open 1H or 1S ( we play precision but don't think it matters for this question). LHO overcalls 1NT, say 15-18 with a presumed stop. Would playing a Hello Convention for responder make any sense ?

[pescetom]

It looks a bit clumsy to me, as partner already bid a major and now the bids related to that suit have to be redefined somehow and you probably want multiple bids to describe fit in his suit.
If anything maybe it would make more sense to have a custom convention after a 1m opening (or Precision 1D).

But the important thing is to have precise agreement about the penalty double.

[paulg]

Assuming you play Hello over a 1NT opener, then I think it would make more sense after a nebulous Precision 1♦ opener than over 1M (for example we play our no trump defence after a 1NT overcall over our short club opener).

When partner has shown a five-card major, then you want to be able to support that and perhaps use bids to show a good or bad raise. In essence, the competitive landscape is different after a 1M opener.

[strong 1c]

 pescetom, on 2026-June-17, 09:34, said:

It looks a bit clumsy to me, as partner already bid a major and now the bids related to that suit have to be redefined somehow and you probably want multiple bids to describe fit in his suit.
If anything maybe it would make more sense to have a custom convention after a 1m opening (or Precision 1D).

But the important thing is to have precise agreement about the penalty double.

And the other thought I have on it, is perhaps Lebensohl responses might work in this scenario , but really haven’t seen it in use by anyone. What does your double mean if not penalty? Just curious

[pescetom]

The double has to be penalty as I see it, although some seem to play a sort of takeout. The issue is that it has to be closely defined so that Opener can decide what to do.

As a generic solution over 1X (1N) maybe you could play that all bids are transfers, with 2S as clubs and 2N as both minors. I just play natural non forcing with raises of major being weak Law based.

[mikeh]

strong 1c, on 2026-June-17, 10:28, said:

And the other thought I have on it, is perhaps Lebensohl responses might work in this scenario , but really haven’t seen it in use by anyone. What does your double mean if not penalty? Just curious

I’ve seen other posters refer to perhaps using lebensohl in unusual circumstances. I don’t see how kebensohl could possible apply after a 1N overcall by RHO.

Lebensohl, whether the original,or some transfer variant, is designed to do several things:

1. Permit responder to get out at the 3 level with a long suit and preemptive values

2. Transfers allow showing on responder to show invitational or better suits at the 3level (transfer leb only)

3. Getting to 3N while indicating a stopper or not in RHO’s suit…clearly inapplicable

4. Using gf stayman while indicating possession of a stopper or not. The stopper aspect is inapplicable and imo one will very rarely wish to use stayman if partner has opened a major. One will not hold a gf hand with no long suit and no big fit for opener..such hands start with double.

After partner opens and RHO bids 1N, one’s goals are markedly different than one’s goals in lebensohl auctions, whether those were after partner opened 1N or one is competing after partner’s double of 2M (including (1M) x (2M))

Here’s what I like:

After 1M (1N). X is a good 10 count…we open light so doubling even with 10 doesn’t always work but it usually does.

2C is either diamonds or the other major with 3 card fit for opener. Less than invitational

2D is the other major

2H is a competitive raise of 1H or 5-5 or better in hearts and a minor, if partner opened 1S

2S s a competitive raise of 1S or a spade- minor hand, 5-5 or better

2N is a power raise of partner’s major, inviting game. Usually 4+ support and some shape

3 new suit below partner’s major is natural, 607 card suit, preemptive


After 1m (1N) we play a related but different method. I’m heading off to play mps so don’t have time to write it up

[strong 1c]

Thanks. I will study that. I think you are correct. Lebensohl- like convention doesn’t seem right

[strong 1c]

 strong 1c, on 2026-June-17, 14:12, said:

Thanks. I will study that. I think you are correct. Lebensohl- like convention doesn’t seem right

This is a bit of a work in progress, but I think might work where bidding goes 1M-1NT overcall
1) Double is penalty oriented
2) Immediate raises of 2M,3M, and 4M are all preemptive showing less than 8 HCP and generally showing 3,4, and 5 card support respectively
3) Responder relays into the Major show 3+card support and 8+ HCP...eg 1H-(1NT) -2D is a relay to Hearts and 1S -(1NT)-2H is a relay to Spades
3a) if Opener accepts the relay, he is at the bottom of his bid whereupon Responder can still do long and short suit tries
3b) if Opener is toward the top of his bids, he can bypass accepting the relay and do immediate long and short suit tries
4) To show 6 card suit and no Major support, Responder bids 2C first to relay to Diamonds and then Responder either passes or bids the 6-card suit. (This could be improved by Responder then doing a transfer after opener bids 2D, to get Opener to be declarer, but it's a bit more complicated
5) To show 55 in the minors and no Major support Responder bids 2NT over opponents 1NT
6) Over 1H -(1NT) To show 5 Spades-5m and no Major support, bid 2S to show it and an undisclosed minor. Opener can bid 2NT to ask which minor
7) Over 1S-(1NT) To show 5 Hearts -5m and no Spades support, bid 2D, to show. Opener can bid 2NT to ask which minor
8) AT this point Responder's bids at the 3 level are undefined
9). Pass is of course, an option

Shall we all start playing this convention now?

[mikeh]

strong 1c, on 2026-June-20, 13:18, said:

This is a bit of a work in progress, but I think might work where bidding goes 1M-1NT overcall
1) Double is penalty oriented
2) Immediate raises of 2M,3M, and 4M are all preemptive showing less than 8 HCP and generally showing 3,4, and 5 card support respectively
3) Responder relays into the Major show 3+card support and 8+ HCP...eg 1H-(1NT) -2D is a relay to Hearts and 1S -(1NT)-2H is a relay to Spades
3a) if Opener accepts the relay, he is at the bottom of his bid whereupon Responder can still do long and short suit tries
3b) if Opener is toward the top of his bids, he can bypass accepting the relay and do immediate long and short suit tries
4) To show 6 card suit and no Major support, Responder bids 2C first to relay to Diamonds and then Responder either passes or bids the 6-card suit. (This could be improved by Responder then doing a transfer after opener bids 2D, to get Opener to be declarer, but it's a bit more complicated
5) To show 55 in the minors and no Major support Responder bids 2NT over opponents 1NT
6) Over 1H -(1NT) To show 5 Spades-5m and no Major support, bid 2S to show it and an undisclosed minor. Opener can bid 2NT to ask which minor
7) Over 1S-(1NT) To show 5 Hearts -5m and no Spades support, bid 2D, to show. Opener can bid 2NT to ask which minor
8) AT this point Responder's bids at the 3 level are undefined
9). Pass is of course, an option

Shall we all start playing this convention now?

No

[strong 1c]

. Obviously I was joking about my convention over opponents NT overcall being adopted by all, but I think there’s some value to it. I think the biggest problem with it is if I open 1M with 3 cards in the other major and my partner has 5 of the other major but only 2 or less of my major, I have difficulty finding that 5-3 fit. A possible work around is 1M-(1Nt)-2c-2M is undefined which I’m mulling as showing 5 in the other major

With the opponent overcalling 1Nt, most of the time by a large margin I don’t see a great need for an immediate game forcing bid by responder . I think it’s a battle for partial scored

most of responders initial bids are relays except for direct raises, so not too taxing on the memory. If responder wants to force game, he’d probably do something on his second bid

Where else do you see any flaws?