[y66]

Scene from The Pig hotel.

[kenberg]

Robert Reich frequently annoys the hell out of me. Here is a line from the cited source:

Quote

Don't get me wrong. A four-year college degree is still valuable. Over your lifetimes, you'll earn about 70 percent more than people who don't have the pieces of parchment you're picking up today.

A completely irrelevant number. We have nothing that remotely resembles a random sample that might make such a statistic useful. A usefulo number, but much more difficult to arrive at, would be: Suppose a person has the ability to finish a four year degree. Will he make more money if he does so than if he puts his energy to use in a different manner? I have no idea and I doubt Reich does either. The number presented compares people who have the ability to succeed in college, and do so, with those who for one reason or another, do not finish. There are many reasons for not finishing, or even starting, but the fact that people who can and do finish make more than people who for one reason or another don't go or don't finish may prove little more than the truism that ability combined with ambition tends to pay off, regardless of how these traits are put to use.

We need a serious discussion of who can benefit from college and who would be better off pursuing a different route. I speak as someone with two daughters, both doing well, one with a Ph.D and the other with no post-secondary education. College is not for everyone and it is a great disservice to pretend that it is the unique road to a good life. Bill Gares is a drop out, is he not?

Btw, I went to college because I like mathematics and college was the place for such a person. Lifetime earnings were not even remotely part of my decision process.

Basically, every time Reich speaks I get a sick feeling in my stomach. He could improve my health by shutting up.

[PassedOut]

 kenberg, on 2012-May-28, 07:32, said:

We need a serious discussion of who can benefit from college and who would be better off pursuing a different route. I speak as someone with two daughters, both doing well, one with a Ph.D and the other with no post-secondary education. College is not for everyone and it is a great disservice to pretend that it is the unique road to a good life. Bill Gates is a drop out, is he not?

Of my three sons, the youngest makes the most money (by far) and has the least education -- recruited after only one semester of college.

But I don't see the value of college as merely a ticket to a higher income. To me, the value is in spending a few years reading the words of past thinkers and in discussing matters of interest with professors and fellow students. My youngest says he sees that too, but I note that he has not signed up for any courses...

No doubt, for many possible reasons, not everyone should go to college. But I'd like to get away from expressing its value in terms of increased income.

[kenberg]

 PassedOut, on 2012-May-28, 08:36, said:

Of my three sons, the youngest makes the most money (by far) and has the least education -- recruited after only one semester of college.

But I don't see the value of college as merely a ticket to a higher income. To me, the value is in spending a few years reading the words of past thinkers and in discussing matters of interest with professors and fellow students. My youngest says he sees that too, but I note that he has not signed up for any courses...

No doubt, for many possible reasons, not everyone should go to college. But I'd like to get away from expressing its value in terms of increased income.

Very much I agree. I very much enjoyed college, and for the reasons you say. I also had an eye on how I was going to make a living. Going to college bacause it is a good way to make a buck seems to me to be pretty misguided. Sort of like marrying for money.For some it will work.

[Cyberyeti]

 kenberg, on 2012-May-28, 08:47, said:

Very much I agree. I very much enjoyed college, and for the reasons you say. I also had an eye on how I was going to make a living. Going to college bacause it is a good way to make a buck seems to me to be pretty misguided. Sort of like marrying for money.For some it will work.

Here in the UK, things are badly slanted because too many people are going to university, meaning that:

People are asking for degrees for jobs that have never needed one before.
The degrees are seriously dumbing down.
The government can't afford to pay for the fees of people to go to university making it ever more expensive.

Going to college to earn a buck is becoming necessary in many fields because employers are just not considering people without a degree for jobs that you don't need a degree to do.

[kenberg]

I think that a lot of the same is happening here.. Employers perhaps see getting through college as proof that you can get through something even if the relevance to the actual job is scant. Maybe we could just have them run a triathalon instead.

[onoway]

A few years ago I was amused ( a bit depressed too) to see that someone looking for a traffic control person for road construction sites required a BA from any applicants to be considered. To stand by the side of the road and hold up stop and slow signs.

Perhaps it's all part of the backlash against anything seen as smacking of "elitism" that university has largely become just a mill for grinding out "acceptable" workers. It was one thing when it used to be that some education indicated an ability to read and write, so it offered some perceptible value over those who could not. Now I have seen examples of people IN University who can barely do even that. They have been pushed through the system for one reason or another..sometimes because the teachers at lower levels know the student won't be able to get work without at least some university and they want him to have a chance to get out of the poverty he was raised in. Unquestionably there are other reasons as well. But it makes a university education a mockery of what it was intended to be, which in some ways IS elitist, in that it should only be appropriate for a percentage of the population.

The only elitist groups now acceptable seem to be the film and music celebrities, or the very rich. So it's likely many more people would be able to reel off every milestone in Lady Gaga's life than would have a clue who Richard Dawkins is for example.

Perhaps universities need to stop giving out degrees. Of course, most universities if not all would promptly go out of business if they did that.

[Winstonm]

 kenberg, on 2012-May-28, 18:08, said:

I think that a lot of the same is happening here.. Employers perhaps see getting through college as proof that you can get through something even if the relevance to the actual job is scant. Maybe we could just have them run a triathalon instead.

That's the SEC.

[kenberg]

Perhaps not exactly on point but today, for uninteresting reasons involving my car's air conditioner and my busy life, I had to be picked up somewhere and brought to a car rental place. Conversation revealed that the driver has a BA in history.

[WellSpyder]

 kenberg, on 2012-May-29, 18:41, said:

Perhaps not exactly on point but [....]

I thought that WAS the point of this thread.

[ggwhiz]

A tweet reprinted in my paper today.

20 years ago we had Johnny Cash, Bob Hope and Steve Jobs. Now we have no Cash, no Hope and no Jobs.

Please lord, don't let anything happen to Kevin Bacon.

[barmar]

In the late 80's/early 90's I worked for a startup computer company that required a degree for receptionists and administrative assistants (aka secretaries). However, they viewed these jobs as entry-level -- it was normal for them to get promoted to more senior or technical roles.

[kenberg]

 ggwhiz, on 2012-June-12, 09:20, said:

A tweet reprinted in my paper today.

20 years ago we had Johnny Cash, Bob Hope and Steve Jobs. Now we have no Cash, no Hope and no Jobs.

Please lord, don't let anything happen to Kevin Bacon.

All we need is Courtney Love

[Cyberyeti]

 kenberg, on 2012-June-12, 14:13, said:

All we need is Courtney Love

But not (Australian cricket legend) Steve Waugh

[y66]

In good health? Thank your 100 trillion bacteria.

[y66]

Why do most tomatoes suck?

Spoiler

A gene mutation that makes a tomato uniformly red also stifles genes that contribute to its taste, researchers say

[Winstonm]

Quote

The Supreme Court upheld the constitutionality of key provisions in the Affordable Care Act, the health care law commonly known as Obamacare, on Thursday, but on Capitol Hill, Republicans are vowing to press on with plans to fully repeal the law.

In related news, the GOP has also vowed to repeal the move of the Dodgers to LA, outlaw the 3-point line in basketball, restore the NFL to its original 6 teams, and elect Herbert Hoover.

[Winstonm]

 y66, on 2012-June-29, 07:25, said:

Why do most tomatoes suck?

Spoiler

A gene mutation that makes a tomato uniformly red also stifles genes that contribute to its taste, researchers say

Finnish ice?

[gwnn]

The Higgs boson walks into the church.
The priest says: We don't allow Higgs bosons in here.
The Higgs boson says: But without me how can you have mass?

[Zelandakh]

 Cyberyeti, on 2012-May-03, 08:14, said:

A similar teaser, with no fouls and with you only making one break, what's the smallest break you can make to leave your opponent needing snookers ?

Just saw this and since noone answered it....

If x is the number of reds in our break then we need 3x > 147 - 11x => x > 147/11 => x = 14. After potting 13 reds and yellows we have a break of 39 with 43 on the table. The 14th red gives us 40 with 35 on so this is the answer. I was rather hoping the answer would be 42... which rather brings us back to gwnn's post. Apparently we did not need a huge computer to calculate the meaning of life, the universe and everything after all - a big concrete doughnut is sufficient!