[jillybean]

1st seat, NV, MP
♠KQ543, ♥T, ♦KJ9743, ♣6

Do you open?

[mikeh]

Yes...I do....I hate it and would not open if my major were hearts, but having spades gives me some hope of controlling the auction...my worst nightmare is partner responding 2♣ but then at least I have the consolation of knowing he probably has a good hand. Passing, hoping to show the 2-suiter later, is what I always used to do, but I'm beginning to think that isn't the way to bid these days. BTW, if I open, it is 1♦. Opening 1♠ creates far too many problems even on easy auctions....and imagine being able to bid 1♦ then 1♠ over 1♥ then 2♠ over 2♣...we'd have shown 5-6 (and therefore at least potentially a weak hand, since partner will understand stretching with that shape) while if we open 1♠ and hear a 2♥ response, we're basically screwed....we'll never find diamonds unless we have 10 of them.

Please...no-one invoke the rule of 20.....

[quiddity]

Mike, say you open this hand and the opponents get into the act with 1♥ on your left and 2♥ or 3♥ on your right. Do you bid your spades over it? If so, how does partner distinguish this hand from a reverse? Does the reverse always double first?

What if they bid 2♣ / 3♣? I guess you have to give up on the spades now?

[mikeh]

quiddity, on 2010-November-12, 13:34, said:

Mike, say you open this hand and the opponents get into the act with 1♥ on your left and 2♥ or 3♥ on your right. Do you bid your spades over it? If so, how does partner distinguish this hand from a reverse? Does the reverse always double first?

What if they bid 2♣ / 3♣? I guess you have to give up on the spades now?

If LHO bids 1♥ and rho raises, and partner passed 1♥, I think I'm out of the auction. We don't have 9+ spades unless partner has a hideous hand. I might bid spades over 2♥ if we were at favourable (6-5 come alive) but not otherwise.

If they bid and raise ♣, I'm definitely out of the auction opposite a passing partner. And I know that this could be bad, since over 2♣ partner could hold long spades and insufficient values/heart length to bid....however, if they are bidding clubs, the odds of partner being short(ish) in hearts seems remote.....would the opps really miss a 9 card major suit fit? So partner almost certainly doesn't have 4+ spades and the values for a negative double...and since I own only 9 hcp with no aces, I will go quietly and hope that my opening bid ends up misleading the opps in the play, the bidding, or both.

[ggwhiz]

quiddity, on 2010-November-12, 13:34, said:

Mike, say you open this hand and the opponents get into the act with 1♥ on your left and 2♥ or 3♥ on your right. Do you bid your spades over it? If so, how does partner distinguish this hand from a reverse? Does the reverse always double first?

What if they bid 2♣ / 3♣? I guess you have to give up on the spades now?

NV Matchpoints, a free run auction isn't likely.

I would open but 1♠, not liking it a lot.

At IMPS I would feel vulnerable to being shut out after a pass if my majors were reversed and they found spades but barring a skip bid or two, this one can't be shutout.

[jillybean]

My partner sent this hand to me, and enforced a pass in 1st seat. (Before reading Mike's post, I would have opened 1♠).
If I don't hear the rule of 20 from someone, I hear the rule of '2 quick tricks'

Question2

The auction is

P (5C) X (P)

Now what? maybe this is too easy.

[nige1]

jillybean, on 2010-November-12, 12:32, said:

1st seat, NV, MP ♠KQ543, ♥T, ♦KJ9743, ♣6
Do you open?

jillybean, on 2010-November-12, 21:54, said:

My partner sent this hand to me, and enforced a pass in 1st seat. (Before reading Mike's post, I would have opened 1♠).
If I don't hear the rule of 20 from someone, it's the rule of '2 quick tricks'
Question2 The auction is
P (5C) X (P)
Now what? maybe this is too easy.

IMO

• 1st seat: 1♦ = 10, 1♠ = 6, _P = 5. Did I say "Rule of 20?" Wash my mouth out with carbolic!
• After partner doubles 5♣: 5♦ = 10, 5♠ = 9, 6♣ = 8, 5N = 7, 6♦ = 5, 6♠ = 3, _P = 1. In context, your hand is enormous but, for a slam, partner needs a minimum of three first round controls, so you should be wary of hanging him for enterprise.

[Fluffy]

I don't feel very strongly about pass, 1♠ or 1♦, I think 1♠ is superior to 1♦ because it focuses on reaching 4♠ quickly and that will be an advantage.

After double of 5♣we are off 4 keycards it is fair to assume partner has 3 of them, 5NT is the bid now, I wanna try and play in spades in case partner has ♦Ax

[jillybean]

Fluffy, on 2010-November-13, 04:30, said:

I don't feel very strongly about pass, 1♠ or 1♦, I think 1♠ is superior to 1♦ because it focuses on reaching 4♠ quickly and that will be an advantage.

After double of 5♣we are off 4 keycards it is fair to assume partner has 3 of them, 5NT is the bid now, I wanna try and play in spades in case partner has ♦Ax

5N, pick a slam?

[Gerben42]

I would pass. Zero defense!

If it went Pass 5♣ Dbl Pass, I guess to bid 5NT... If partner doesn't have 4 keys, maybe we get a discard anyway.

1♦ 5♣ Dbl Pass is another tough story. 5♠ I guess!

[ggwhiz]

Quote

The auction is

P (5C) X (P)

I voted for 1♠ but don't mind pass at all.

However, I prefer 6♣ as pick a slam with 2 suits, converting ♥ to ♠.

Is partner not entitled to take 5nt as a choice between all 3 suits? Could lead to disaster if pards shape is 3-5-4-1 or some such.

I would bid 6♦ with this over 6♣ expecting a two-suiter in the pointed suits and 5♥ expecting 5nt to be a 4-4-4-1 or 4-4-5-0.

After the opening bid, 6♠ on a 5-3 fit would suck.

And yes, if my hand can be this good after failing to open, I'm going for it.

[the hog]

IF you open it, then it has to be 1S. Opening 1D gives you the worst of all worlds and would rate a minus score in a bidding forum.
Personally I would pass, unless playing a 2 suited opening. I agree with Gerben's post on this.

[mikeh]

the hog, on 2010-November-13, 19:29, said:

IF you open it, then it has to be 1S. Opening 1D gives you the worst of all worlds and would rate a minus score in a bidding forum.

LOL

Let's see: 1♦ maximizes (by a wide margin) being able to show 5=6: 1♠ means that we will NEVER show longer diamonds than spades, and we will be endplayed by a 2♥ response by partner. Opening 1♠ on this hand is truly laughable.

[jillybean]

If
P (5♣) X (P)
6♣ is pick a slam

what is
P (5♣) X (P)
5N ?

[the hog]

mikeh, on 2010-November-13, 21:40, said:

LOL

Let's see: 1♦ maximizes (by a wide margin) being able to show 5=6: 1♠ means that we will NEVER show longer diamonds than spades, and we will be endplayed by a 2♥ response by partner. Opening 1♠ on this hand is truly laughable.

Well Mike, I will laugh harder when you open 1D, reverse and partner then presses on or doubles a high level opp contract because he thinks you have what you said. By the way, I assume you read that I would pass unless you play a 2 suited opening? Or don't you bother to read posts fully? Opening 1D is truly rofl for me.

[mgoetze]

the hog, on 2010-November-14, 01:35, said:

Well Mike, I will laugh harder when you open 1D, reverse and partner then presses on or doubles a high level opp contract because he thinks you have what you said. By the way, I assume you read that I would pass unless you play a 2 suited opening? Or don't you bother to read posts fully? Opening 1D is truly rofl for me.

Apparently you don't bother to read posts fully because Mike certainly wasn't planning to reverse.

[Zelandakh]

I think 5NT is pick a slam and 6C is a grand try Jilly. But there are several possible ways of playing these kinds of situations.

[ggwhiz]

5nt is so rare its' not well defined in most partnerships.

It should likely be pick a slam out of 3-suits here instead of two. A 4-4-4-1 or being from a passed hand, more likely some kind of 4-4-5-0.

BTW, after a 6 club que, responder is NOT allowed to pick spades in case it was a red 2-suiter but they are after 5nt.

Much more likely to happen after 5c - x - p than by a passed hand since so many (most?) opened this hand in first chair.

[nigel_k]

I'd pass initially. There are too many bad things that can happen if I open and I'll usually get the chance to describe the hand much better by passing and bidding later. Highly aggressive bidding by a passed hand should be a two suiter, since a three suiter won't be strong enough and a one suiter would have opened. So I can just bid 3♠ if it comes back to me at 3♥ or maybe even 4♠ over 4♥ if I decide to risk that.

On the second part I would bid 5NT. For the same reason as above, this is likely to be a two suiter and partner should bid accordingly. Though probably it should be a two suiter even if unpassed. 6♣ suggests the same hand but with first round club control and grand interest.

[the hog]

mgoetze, on 2010-November-14, 07:23, said:

Apparently you don't bother to read posts fully because Mike certainly wasn't planning to reverse.

Isn't he? So you are suggesting that if his partner responds 2C he will bid 2D rather than 2S? Hmmm, this is a novel idea. I bet his bid will be 2S. Use some logic please, mgoetze!