[JLOGIC]

Zelandakh, on 2013-January-26, 11:25, said:

Have a look at the auction I quoted again; but this time read the notes, in particular line 2. I admit this could be parsed as "[0-8 (any)] or [9-11 with a bad minor]" rather than "[0-8 or 9-11] [with a bad minor]" but this seems unworkable.

I took it as the former

[dake50]

Imitate JLOGIC auction.

[antonylee]

Sorry for my unclear explanations, but 1♦ is [0-8 (no 4cM if 7-8)]; or [9-11 with a bad minor]; or [12-16 balanced but interested in being dummy in 3N opposite a WNT].
Now 2♠ is NF (21-23ish) because as explained above 1♠ itself more or less has to be limited to ~20 due to the basic structure of PC. Thus 3♣ covers anything from a hand that wouldn't make a second negative opposite 2♣(standard strong)-2♦-2♠) to 8 with a decent minor or even 11 with a bad minor (and creates a GF, as in the above-mentioned standard auction). Over 3♥ now I think 4♣ has to show a goodish suit in the context of the auction (otherwise responder can always give delayed support or try 3N with some diamond secondary values).

[nige1]

straube, on 2013-January-26, 11:59, said:

If it's usually 7-cds and you have the spade finesse to fall back on then I understand 7C. I think I'll put a 6C? by your 7C outcome (unless I hear objections) because a lot of folks were certain of that 7th club. I'm listing SCREAM's outcome as 6C even though I have the spade finesse and a possibility of a 7th club.

Thank you Straube for posting all these interesting and challenging bidding problems. Your comment on the hypothetical Jasmine ♣ auction is fair enough. When North has only six good ♣s, a singleton ♥, and no honours outside ♣ then 7♣ will depend on a little more than the ♠ finesse.
North ♠ xxx ♥ x ♦ xxx ♣ AQJTxx
South ♠ AQxxx ♥ AKxx ♦ AK ♣ Kx
i.e.

• On a ♦ lead, you can cash ♦AK, ♥A, ruff a ♥ low, ruff a ♦ high, draw trumps and finesse ♠Q.
• On other leads, you can draw trumps, finesse ♠Q, ♠A, ♥AK chucking a ♠, ruff a ♠, ♦K, ruff a ♠, catering for 4-1 ♠ breaks.

[Mbodell]

At the table we got to 6♣S, by system we probably play 7♣S although 6♣S and 7ntN are also possible.

1♣-1♦ : 16+ unbal or 18+ bal; 0-7 or occ 8+ with <2 ctls
1♥-1♠ : kokish, H or strong bal; forced response
2nt-3♠ : 24-25 bal (I upgraded); forces 3nt for some minor slam try
3nt-4♣ : forced; single suited club slam try
4♦-4♥ : 1430 clubs; 1 (or 4) kc
4♠-6♣ : trump Q?; yes, but no other K

it should really go:
1♣-1♦ : 16+ unbal or 18+ bal; 0-7 or occ 8+ with <2 ctls
1♥-1♠ : kokish, H or strong bal; forced response
2nt-3♠ : 24-25 bal (I upgraded); forces 3nt for some minor slam try
3nt-4♣ : forced; single suited club slam try
4♦-4♥ : 1430 clubs; 1 (or 4) kc
4♠-5♠ : trump Q?; yes, but no other K
5nt?-7♣? : we have all the KC and at least 6♣; an extra club should be worth 7?

[Zelandakh]

Mbodell, on 2013-January-26, 17:11, said:

4♠-6♣ : trump Q?; yes, but no other K

it should really go:
4♠-5♠ : trump Q?; yes, but no other K

These 2 auctions seem incompatible. Not that I can talk, I messed up my auction on this hand too but can live with it.

[Mbodell]

Zelandakh, on 2013-January-28, 02:44, said:

Mbodell, on 2013-January-26, 17:11, said:

4♠-6♣ : trump Q?; yes, but no other K

it should really go:
4♠-5♠ : trump Q?; yes, but no other K

These 2 auctions seem incompatible. Not that I can talk, I messed up my auction on this hand too but can live with it.

Well the top explanation is a simplification. When 4♠ is the Q ask for clubs and below game then the responses are:

4nt - Q yes, and the ♠K
5♣ - Q no
5♦ - Q yes, no ♠K but ♦K
5♥ - Q yes, no ♠K or ♦K but ♥K
5♠ - Q yes, no outside K

That arrangement seems pretty good with the idea being nt takes the place of the asking suit (the one that is most expensive to show) and going all the way shows no K (because usually you least need to find out information when there are no K, you are settling for 6).

we don't define past that, but 6♣ seems like an obvious forget/skip with no outside K but the club Q (similar to a response to a 5♥ Q ask in 1430 for spades).

If I get a chance to bid 5nt over 5♠ then partner knows we have 7 club tricks and first round in all the suits. I have 21-22 points outside clubs (9-10 plus the three A). I'm not sure what the odds are that this will equal 6 tricks outside, but I'd think it very often will be either cold or on a finesse, which I think makes it biddable.

[Zelandakh]

Mbodell, on 2013-January-28, 03:13, said:

Well the top explanation is a simplification. When 4♠ is the Q ask for clubs and below game then the responses are:

I actually use the same except that 5♠ shows something extra. On this auction that would be a side queen. Then 5NT shows a different extra, here an extra club card. And 6♣ shows the ♣Q and nothing extra.

[straube]

Zelandakh, on 2013-January-28, 02:44, said:

These 2 auctions seem incompatible. Not that I can talk, I messed up my auction on this hand too but can live with it.

I'd recommend editing your auction. I've edited mine a couple of times. It's less confusing if you either make a new post with the updated version or edit your original to show the revised version, but we want your system to work as best as possible. I notice that some are bidding these hands with their partners and that's a great way to reduce the chance for resulting...but aside from resulting, if a better auction is to be had, that's what we want here.

[qplus10]

2nt (22-24 bal) 4♣ (forcing gerber )
4nt (3 aces) 6♣
6nt

[jack502]

1♣1♥
1♠2♣
2♦2nt
3♦3♠
4♦4♠
6♣




1♥=semi positive bal,4441 or unbal without a 5 card major
some relays then 2nt= one suited clubs.
3♦rkcb for clubs
4♦q of trump ask
4♠= yes but zero kings.

[Lord Molyb]

Quote

.......................94
.......................7
.......................742
.......................AQJ8763
KJ75.....................................T8
JT86.....................................Q542
J53.......................................QT986
T2.........................................95
.......................AQ632
.......................AK93
.......................AK
.......................K4

Molybdenum Forcing Pass System:
S ---- N
P --- 1♣ (opening, 0-bad 12)
1NT --- 2NT (22+, transfer to a minor)
3♣ --- 3♥ (complete transfer, shortness GF)
4♣ --- 4♦ (minor suited blackwood, 1KC)
4♥ --- 4NT (queen ask, yes + 7th club)
6♣ --- P (grand slam is only on if north has 3+ diamonds and 50-% otherwise)

[CamHenry]

Unnamed Homebrew Diamond:
1♦-1N 16+, excluding GF / weak or slam try with ♣
2♠-2N At least tolerance, and a suit / No ♠ fit, but slam try in ♣
3♣-4♣ Suit agreement, GF / 4 or 6 CPs (here it's A=2, CQ=1, Hx=1)
4♥-5♣ Second-round ♥ control (and 7+ CPs) / Also second-round ♥ control, and 4 CPs
7♣

S can bid 7♣ here because N has shown a 6+ card suit to an honour, 0-2 spades, and a singleton heart; he's also promised 4 CPs. Those 4 could be Kx/x/x/QJxxxxxxx, but N should ask for keycards with that hand instead of using Swiss. S can therefore deduce that N has the CA; he's therefore got diamonds that can be ruffed. The worst-case hand is something like xx/x/xxxx/AQJxxx, and that's not good enough for a single-suited slam try.

The key to bidding this one is our weak-or-slam-try transfer responses. They've appeared about 3 times at the table, and on each one we've had a very good board out of them!

[Kungsgeten]

straube, on 2013-January-24, 20:00, said:

You are South and dealer. V vs V. imps. Uncontested auction.

.......................94
.......................7
.......................742
.......................AQJ8763
KJ75.....................................T8
JT86.....................................Q542
J53.......................................QT986
T2.........................................95
.......................AQ632
.......................AK93
.......................AK
.......................K4

Pass 2000

Funny this board should show up. We are just now discussing how we should handle preempts when partner is passed.

P - 3C; (0-7 / 17+ -- 7 clubs, 2 of 3 top honours, no side king or ace)
6NT

Even if we could relay partners hand it would probably do no good, since north would show x-1-x-7+, and south needs to know the full distribution to bid the grand (without taking a chance with the spade finesse).

[PrecisionL]

Upgraded Ultra Club Relay (C3)

1♣ - 2NT = ♣KQxxxx or better, G.F -
3♣ = Beta - 3♥ = 2 Controls (AQJxxx+) -
4♣ Extra? - 4♥ = 7 clubs
7♣ All Pass

[Zelandakh]

PrecisionL, on 2013-February-28, 18:38, said:

Upgraded Ultra Club Relay (C3)

I can understand the 2137/3127 relayers guessing this because they are >50% on the shape and have the spade finesse in reserve but can you explain the maths behind your decision. It feels like something of a position to take on what may very well be a finesse for the 13th (but I have not calculated any probabilities).

[PrecisionL]

Zelandakh, on 2013-March-01, 03:44, said:

I can understand the 2137/3127 relayers guessing this because they are >50% on the shape and have the spade finesse in reserve but can you explain the maths behind your decision. It feels like something of a position to take on what may very well be a finesse for the 13th (but I have not calculated any probabilities).

OK, I can count 12 tricks: 7♣ + 5 more (AK + AK + AQ). Partner has 6 cards outside of ♣ and I have 5 of them covered. The 13th trick could be a) a ♦ ruff if partner has 3♦, or he has Q♦ and/or the Q♥, or the Q♠ finesse as a last resort. Only three distributions are likely (partner should not have a side 4-cd suit for his bid): 7222 or 7321 or 7330. 7321 is most likely, thus my gut-feel is that 7♣ is about 75%, which is my threshold for a grand slam in IMPs.