Response holding 5 card Major
#1
Posted 2014-October-08, 10:32
I often find myself (in the world of Bridge Baron ) holding a five card major with game support and am not sure how to show it in response to a one minor open. Mentioning the major of course shows 4, but I seem to wind up in NT even with a 5/3 fit once dummy shows. I ask this because, with the 5 card major and holding weak in the other major, I hate winding up in NT if partner is also weak in the second major. Rebidding shows six, so is there way around this?
Thanks for any replys!
#2
Posted 2014-October-08, 10:59
#3
Posted 2014-October-08, 11:05
Just what I was looking for...many thanks!
If playing pickup in BBO, how would (or should) this be decided...since I don't believe it's SAYC.
I see that Cohen says:
Quote
New minor forcing vs. checkback would be something to pre-determine?
#4
Posted 2014-October-08, 11:06
"New Minor Forcing" works as follows: Your partner opens 1 of a minor, you respond 1 of a major, and partner rebids 1NT. If you now bid 2 of the other minor (than the one your partner opened), then this is an artificial, forcing bid that does not promise any sort of holding in the suit you bid. An example:
2♦ does not promise anything in diamonds. It is simply asking partner, "partner, do you have 3 hearts and/or 4 spades?"
You should have at least invitational strength to bid NMF. Assuming your 1NT rebid shows 12-14 points, this means you should have at least 11 points to bid NMF.
Checkback Stayman is much the same, except that the asking bid is always 2♣, regardless of whether partner opened 1♣ or 1♦.
-- Bertrand Russell
#5
Posted 2014-October-08, 12:48
I found a chapter online in Marvin French's book :"Marvin's Conventions and Treatments." in .pdf form, but hesitate to include the address for fear of copyright issues....should anyone else be interested in learning more, a google search of "CHECKBACK STAYMAN BY RESPONDER" should show you to the site.
Many thanks for the info!
#7
Posted 2014-October-08, 13:52
1D-1S
2D-3C
where you hold KQJxx xxx xx AQx. With no stop in hearts and no sixth spade your only choice is to invent a "fake" 3C, after which partner shows three-card spade support if he has it.
ahydra
#8
Posted 2014-October-09, 02:58
1) Find all 4-4 fits
2) Find all 5-3 fits
3) Don't play in 4-3 fits or 5-2 fits.
and various approaches to bidding cater to dealing with them. You've discovered the weakness of the responding with 4 but never raising on 3 - you miss a bunch of 5-3 fits. Of course there are solutions: http://web.mit.edu/m...r_Suit_Fits.pdf has a good review. NMF is one of the simplest ways of meeting all three criteria on invitational or better hands.
#9
Posted 2014-October-09, 03:17
Rickysa, on 2014-October-08, 10:32, said:
More importantly, rebidding it at the 2-level is weak while rebidding it at the 3-level is invitational (about 10-11 points), so you would have to rebid it at the 4-level to be sure you reach game.
Not playing any check back convention you would have to fake the unbid minor suit at the 3-level or fake a reverse, i.e.
1♣-1♠
1NT-3♦
or
1♣-1♥
1NT-2♠
both of which would be forcing and give partner a chance to show 3-card support.
#10
Posted 2014-October-09, 04:26
Rickysa, on 2014-October-08, 10:32, said:
I often find myself (in the world of Bridge Baron ) holding a five card major with game support and am not sure how to show it in response to a one minor open. Mentioning the major of course shows 4, but I seem to wind up in NT even with a 5/3 fit once dummy shows. I ask this because, with the 5 card major and holding weak in the other major, I hate winding up in NT if partner is also weak in the second major. Rebidding shows six, so is there way around this?
Thanks for any replys!
Basically what they are saying is, you do NOT show 5 card major as responder. You show either 4 or 6. (rebidding your major means you have 6 of them) When you have 5 of them, instead of showing, you ASK to pd whether he has 3 of them or not. There are various ways to ask and I will not get into them here, since above posters already mentioned some of them. Choose the one that you are most comfy with among those imho.
But keep in mind that, responder ASKS opener whether he has 3 card support ONLY when he has invitation or better hands (apprx 11+) With weaker hands, you either pass or give suit preference to pd (usually returning to his first suit cheaply is called preference and does not mean you support him, it only means you are willing to sign of as soon as you can unless he has extras for his opening, such as 16+), or bid 1 NT if available and suitable.
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"
"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
#11
Posted 2014-October-09, 05:47
Quote
Yessir, that is the exact situation I would find myself in and be flummoxed and frustrated by the lack of ability to communicate it...reading Kantor's description of checkback makes it seem pretty slick.
#12
Posted 2014-October-09, 05:53
neilkaz, on 2014-October-08, 13:03, said:
One of the functions of NMF (finding a fit in the other major) is rendered unnecessary in SAYC because it rebids a major at the one level with balanced hands.
London UK
#13
Posted 2014-October-09, 06:21
If I sat down with a pick-up partner, agreeing "SAYC" and having five minutes to discuss additional gadgets, I would have other priorities. Like lebensohl, and getting rid of some of SAYC's silly penalty doubles.
#14
Posted 2014-October-09, 23:35