[aguahombre]

 blackshoe, on 2011-June-18, 04:41, said:

Interesting. If I remember correctly, in The Modern Losing Trick Count, Ron Klinger defines "long suit game try" as a side suit with at least three cards and two or three losers. What you've described here as a "help suit game try".

I have always had trouble figuring out what a "help suit" should look like, too. So, our style doesn't use the term. But, what you are attributing to Klinger --3+ cards, 2 or 3 losers--just sounds like "help" to me.

Like I said, I have trouble with the definitions, but Zel's post seems reasonable to me.

[jmcw]

 Zelandakh, on 2011-June-18, 03:49, said:

A help suit game try is a trial bid in a suit where you need help. This is not the same as a long suit game try even though many players confuse the two. xxx is an ideal holding for a HSGT. Summary:-

At the table I have found a very wide range of holdings that seemingly qualify as "help". would you accept a HSGT with any of the following:

1. x
2. xx
3. hx
4. xxx
5. hxx
6. hhx...etc.

I think it quite unusual to make a HSGT when holding xxx in the suit, more typical is a suit headed by an honor with 2 or 3 losers hxx(x),hhx(x). Accepting requires a helping honor withing the suit AND solid values for the preceeding bid. Accepting with shortness (void or stiff) is considered acceptable when holding 4 trumps. So I would consider accepting with 1,3,5,6.

[mtvesuvius]

QTx or Kxx is my minimum for a HSGT

[jogs]

 Zelandakh, on 2011-June-18, 03:49, said:

A help suit game try is a trial bid in a suit where you need help. This is not the same as a long suit game try even though many players confuse the two. xxx is an ideal holding for a HSGT. Summary:-

Help suit game try = suit where I need help (ie I have losers, please upgrade your cover cards or shortage))

I hate 3♥ on xxx or Jxx. Opponents are given a road map to proper defense.

Dummy. ♠ Qxx ♥ xxx ♦ xxx ♣ KJxx

Please cash your three heart winners. Don't attempt to cash two diamonds.

Declarer. ♠ AKxxxx ♥ Jxx ♦ x ♣ AQx

The field makes 9 or 10 tricks. You always make only 9.

[the hog]

 bluecalm, on 2011-June-17, 04:25, said:

While I think most people play that it's general game try (me included usually) I think it's better to play it as natural (either 5-4 with at least liht invitational values or 5-5 with any strength). At imps we are not doubling them anyway and finding our heart fit could be critical.

I agree with this. For me it is a natural bid, (lst), and a game try. A x would be a general game try, not penalties for me.

[Hilver]

 the hog, on 2011-June-19, 01:06, said:

I agree with this. For me it is a natural bid, (lst), and a game try. A x would be a general game try, not penalties for me.

The actual hand of the 3♥-bidder:
♠ A J 9 5 3
♥ K 9 7
♦ 6
♣ A K 3 2

Jan

[Onedown]

I do not see what the difficulty is here. My partner did not make a negative x, unless he was too weak with 6-7 HCP, ergo we found our fit and 3 hearts is a game try, asking partner, how you like things now for 4 spades?