[Fluffy]

So partner leads the Ace against a no trump contract.

Dummy has 1053

you have:

a) J862

b) Q82

In wich positions do you encourage?

[Free]

both (without knowing anything else about the hand)

[Phil]

If the A asks attitude for the Q the 2nd one is easy. The first one is tougher; it might depend on what the rest of the hand looks like.

[mich-b]

We have the agreement that in positions like this encouraging = "I have the Q".
If I discourage the opening leader is on his own (on trick 2) in deciding if his best chance is to try to drop declarer's queen or switch.
If he does decide to switch , I will be able to signal my count in the suit later , when following to some other suit, and hope it's not too late if we needed to cash.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

deleted... since I missed that it was a NOTRUMP contract.

[dake50]

Encourage means "come to my Q and I'll back to you"?
Or encourage means "cash your A, partner"?
It matters which.

[WellSpyder]

TWO4BRIDGE, on 2011-November-09, 08:24, said:

BOTH also...

The 2nd one is easy: You either have the Q or the start of a doubleton.

The 1st one loses nothing if you encourage: Opener either has Q-doubleton or Q x x(x..) and the Q is protected w/10-3rd in dummy. So, let partner take his K immediately.

Did you notice Fluffy specified a no trump contract?

[gnasher]

Encouraging shows the queen. With Jxxx you discourage, then use Smith or suit-preference to say you really did like it.

[Phil]

gnasher, on 2011-November-09, 11:23, said:

Encouraging shows the queen. With Jxxx you discourage, then use Smith or suit-preference to say you really did like it.

Hopefully we regain the lead in time to fulfill this wish.

[han]

When partner leads from AKxx and 10xx appears in dummy, it works out best when we give count. If we have 3 cards in the suit, it is almost always best for partner to continue with a low one (both when we have Qxx or xxx). If we have 4 cards in the suit it is right for partner to continue with a high one, and it doesn't matter whether we have the queen or the jack.

If there is a doubleton in the dummy it is less clear.

[Phil]

han, on 2011-November-10, 05:52, said:

When partner leads from AKxx and 10xx appears in dummy, it works out best when we give count. If we have 3 cards in the suit, it is almost always best for partner to continue with a low one (both when we have Qxx or xxx). If we have 4 cards in the suit it is right for partner to continue with a high one, and it doesn't matter whether we have the queen or the jack.

If there is a doubleton in the dummy it is less clear.

That's nice. How do you tell 3rd hand how many cards the opening leader has? Does 3rd hand signal count with xx as well?

[whereagles]

Gonzalo, am I correct that the A lead in this case just shows AK and nothing more?

[han]

Phil, on 2011-November-10, 08:31, said:

That's nice. How do you tell 3rd hand how many cards the opening leader has?

Most people signal their own count, not partner's count.

Quote

Does 3rd hand signal count with xx as well?

If your agreement is to signal count in some situation, of course you signal count with a doubleton as well. As you point out above, responder does not know which count partner is hoping for. Perhaps partner has AKJxx and dummy has 10xx. If we have xxx then partner can cash the first five tricks, but if we have xx then partner should probably switch. In this case partner often knows that we don't have 4.

What I am saying is that if partner leads an ace against 1NT - 3NT and dummy has 10xx, signalling count solves some problems that signalling attitude does not solve. If partner has led from AKx then he probably wants an attitude signal though.

[mikeh]

Doesn't everyone have an agreement about which card to lead from a suit headed by the AK? We lead one card if we want count/unblock and the other if we want attitude.

Thus when partner leads a card asking for attitude, I think it best to give attitude and not count.

So Han's posts here don't make a lot of sense to me....which may say more about me than about his posts, of course.

As for the actual OP issue.....I don't think that there is a 'best' solution, especially if we would lead the same card from AKx as we do from AKxx. My own 'solution' is the same as Andy's....I encourage with the Qxx(x) and discourage with Jxxx and hope to use reverse smith later, tho as Phil pointed out, later may be too late.

The saving grace is that, if we are on the same wavelength, it may be apparent to partner that declarer has his contract made should partner switch and thus, with AKxx, he may elect to cash the K when I discourage....knowing that I might have Jxxx.

Btw, while we are at it: Jxxxx.....clearly we encourage since partner has AKx and not AKxx.

[han]

I didn't mean to disturb anybody, I just thought that count cards would work well here.

If you lead the king from AKxx when you need a count signal, and the ace from AKxx when you need an attitude signal, those are great methods, especially if you know in advance which signal you will need. My partner and I only lead the king (asking count or unblock) from a strong holdings, and we would never lead it from AKxx. So, in our methods, it does make some sense to give count or attitude after the ace-lead depending on what lies in dummy.

I don't play this, our agreement is to give attitude on the lead of the ace, but I know that my regular teammates always signal count in this situation. I don't know how they can live with that, but they swear by it. Maybe other partnerships play that the count or attitude signal depends on the dummy. That sounds difficult, perhaps too difficult in practice, but theoretically probably better.

[cherdano]

mikeh, on 2011-November-10, 10:30, said:

So Han's posts here don't make a lot of sense to me....which may say more about me than about his posts, of course.

Very accurate.

[han]

Just when mikeh and I were having a polite discussion, cherdano comes in with all his sins...

[mikeh]

han, on 2011-November-10, 12:08, said:

Just when mikeh and I were having a polite discussion, cherdano comes in with all his sins...

That's ok...he can't help himself....he sees me post and he just has to be acerbic

[mikeh]

han, on 2011-November-10, 11:49, said:

I didn't mean to disturb anybody, I just thought that count cards would work well here.

If you lead the king from AKxx when you need a count signal, and the ace from AKxx when you need an attitude signal, those are great methods, especially if you know in advance which signal you will need. My partner and I only lead the king (asking count or unblock) from a strong holdings, and we would never lead it from AKxx. So, in our methods, it does make some sense to give count or attitude after the ace-lead depending on what lies in dummy.

I understand this post

However, it seems to me that opening leader will usually not be interested in count (or not be able to make much use of it).

Thus, on 1N 3N, I lead the A from AKxx and AKx.

Dummy has 10xx.

Partner shows me an even number. Well, if he has 2, I need to switch now! If he has 4, I need, probably, to continue (certainly if I held AKxx, and probably with AKx), and I have no way of telling.

If he shows an odd number, and I hold AKx, I can't tell if he has 3 (switch) or 5(continue). If I hold AKxx, then opposite an odd number, I can lead low, hoping to be to the Q, gaining on Qxx and breaking even other times.

Obviously, stayman sequences help a lot here....but when I can't tell the suit lengths within 1 card, count seems to be very risky. Maybe we could have a rule that we'd play count IF opener has denied as many as 4 cards in the suit, and attitude otherwise?

[gnasher]

Phil, on 2011-November-09, 13:59, said:

Hopefully we regain the lead in time to fulfill this wish.

How many notrumps are we defending? If our side never gets in again, then we were only able to take four tricks anyway, so at IMPs this isn't an issue.

At matchpoints, it would be nice to take all four of our tricks, but it's even more important not to let declarer score his doubleton queen.